Basement sump room planning

[SeaMonkey]

So I am moving to a new house and finally have room in the basement to make a sump/fish room. I am just trying to plan out what I will need so I have everything ready when I move my tank to the new house. I currently have a 180 reef tank with the sump and refugium in the stand and chiller and media reactors mounted outside the stand. I just thought I would see what others might recomend for doing this. So here are my first questions.

1. What return pump should I get? Currently have an iwaki 40rxt but know this will be to small. The vertices distance old be around 12.5 feet and horizontal would be around 18 feet.

2. Should I manifold off the return line to feed my chiller and media reactors or go with seperate pumps for them?

3. Should I split the return line at the tank to have two return nozzles on each back corner of the tank or just go with one return nozzle?

Also if you have any other suggestions that would be great. Thanks for your help.

 

[Dr.DiSilicate]

You will almost certainly not need a chiller. My heaters run on 90 deg. Days with my halides on.

 

[TheRealChrisBrown]

I am running a Reeflo Hammerhead from my basement up about 16ft to my display, been running that pump 24/7 for 2 years and it has been great. I ran 1.5 inch pipe all the way to the display and then T'd off into 2 1.5 inch lines into each corner like you thought. Reeflo is a Colorado company as well, and I've heard their customer service is really good (knock on wood, I haven't had to use it yet).

I'm a fan of "spa flex" or flexible PVC, really helps take the vibration out of a strong pump, as well as eliminates any 90 degree bends in the line. Glues up just like regular PVC.

I second the thought about not needing a chiller. My basement is cool enough it seems to do the job well.

 

[SeaMonkey]

Well that's good to know about the chiller. I thought about reeflo pumps but thought they did not handle head pressure well. I will give them a call and see what they say. Thanks

 

[TheRealChrisBrown]

The Hammerhead/Barracuda can handle up to 20 or 24 feet of head pressure:
View attachment 24308

What I don't know about is how your horizontal run factors in (with any pump, not just the Reeflo). If you are going 12.5 ft. vertical then another 18 ft. horizontal...how would that factor into the head pressure calculation? My sump is directly below the display, so I am literally going straight up to the display.

 

[FinsUp]

We had the hammerhead/barracuda pump for our setup, and it worked great. But we didn't have the horizontal distance, either. Maybe talk to the reeflo guys about that (they're in CO Springs). One thing I'd recommend is having a 2nd pump plumbed in for a backup, in case you have issues with the main one (snail, etc). Most of the time, the backup pump won't be running at all, but a valve turn and flipped switch, and it's taking care of business while your other one goes offline for repair or maintenance.

I third their comments about a chiller. Highly doubt you'll need it. We never did.

If you have room, I'd also plumb in your water change station so you can flip a couple of switches to mix/heat your water and do the actual water change. Makes that a 10 min piece of cake instead of a pain in the butt. That was my favorite part of our fish room.

Other than that, just consider safety when you design the layout. Put stuff in really smart places so that if something goes haywire (like your skimmer exploding and spraying water out the top), you aren't frying the electronics. And drip loops are your friends.

OH- one more thing- tile floors. Do tile floors. Expect the room to flood at some point, and you won't be disappointed.

 

[Chris_W]

+1 on the hammerhead. Phenomenal pump.

 

[Walter White]

Well that's good to know about the chiller. I thought about reeflo pumps but thought they did not handle head pressure well. I will give them a call and see what they say. Thanks

Some Reeflos are rated for high flow and lower head pressures some go the opposite way. I run my sump from my basement. 11.5' vertical and 22' horizontal. I'm running the Reeflo wahoos which are rated for ~36' of vertical head and max flow of 1500 GPH. I have to throttle mine back about 40% because its way to much. How much flow are you planning on running through your sump?

Personally if it were me Id go with the reeflo Yellowtail which is the replacement for the Wahoo which was discontinued. This pump is ideal for energy efficiency especially when throttled back. Most of your in tank flow will probably come from other wave makers so you technically dont really need to run anything that puts out more than 800 gph through the sump (IMO). Food for thought. All that said if you willing to spend a bit more money Id go with a dolphin pump instead or possibly the new Ecotech DC return.

In terms of running your reactors off your return pump the first question I would ask is what kind of overflow do you plan on using? If you are going to go with a herbie or beananimal style I would not recommend running reactors off your return. The reason being is unless you are planning on running your reactors 24/7 you are going to have to re-tune the full siphon drain every time you turn off/on the valves supplying the reactor/s. Otherwise you are either going to deal with noise from the return or the possibility an overflow issue. In my opinion the way to go is to run reactors such as biopellet and other equipment like chillers and the like off the return since those typically need to run all the time anyway. Things such as GFO and Carbon, etc are better on dedicated pump/s so they can be turned on and off as needed and wont mess with the tune on your overflow. If your overflow will only use a single drain pipe then it dosnt matter as much just be sure the overflow can handle the return when all the reactosr are turn off. Hope that all makes sense.

I personally split my return into two nozzles and im glad I did because as it is right now I have trouble with my sand blowing around and having the flow concentrated out of one nozzle would have my sand all over the place. If I had it to do over. I might have even split it three ways.

It sounds like you build is going to be very similar to mine in terms of size a head pressure, etc. Feel free to check out my build thread for ideas and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[FinsUp]

Some Reeflos are rated for high flow and lower head pressures some go the opposite way. I run my sump from my basement. 11.5' vertical and 22' horizontal. I'm running the Reeflo wahoos which are rated for ~36' of vertical head and max flow of 1500 GPH. I have to throttle mine back about 40% because its way to much. How much flow are you planning on running through your sump?

Personally if it were me Id go with the reeflo Yellowtail which is the replacement for the Wahoo which was discontinued. This pump is ideal for energy efficiency especially when throttled back. Most of your in tank flow will probably come from other wave makers so you technically dont really need to run anything that puts out more than 800 gph through the sump (IMO). Food for thought. All that said if you willing to spend a bit more money Id go with a dolphin pump instead or possibly the new Ecotech DC return.

In terms of running your reactors off your return pump the first question I would ask is what kind of overflow do you plan on using? If you are going to go with a herbie or beananimal style I would not recommend running reactors off your return. The reason being is unless you are planning on running your reactors 24/7 you are going to have to re-tune the full siphon drain every time you turn off/on the valves supplying the reactor/s. Otherwise you are either going to deal with noise from the return or the possibility an overflow issue. In my opinion the way to go is to run reactors such as biopellet and other equipment like chillers and the like off the return since those typically need to run all the time anyway. Things such as GFO and Carbon, etc are better on dedicated pump/s so they can be turned on and off as needed and wont mess with the tune on your overflow. If your overflow will only use a single drain pipe then it dosnt matter as much just be sure the overflow can handle the return when all the reactosr are turn off. Hope that all makes sense.

I personally split my return into two nozzles and im glad I did because as it is right now I have trouble with my sand blowing around and having the flow concentrated out of one nozzle would have my sand all over the place. If I had it to do over. I might have even split it three ways.

It sounds like you build is going to be very similar to mine in terms of size a head pressure, etc. Feel free to check out my build thread for ideas and let me know if you have any questions.

You won't find a better system planner than Kris. You could eat off the floor of his fish room, and I have serious 'gear envy' about what he uses for his tank. He researches everything about everything, and chooses very wisely. So if he says a different model pump will work better for you, I'd defer to his expertise without hesitation.

 

[deboy69]

I highly recommend reeflo from their customer service side also. I love my hammerhead right now.

 

[Balz3352]

Great now I need to go back and really read Kris' build thread....

 

[Dr.DiSilicate]

Here is a picture of mine. I am using a wave line dc 10000 II for the return. It powers the tank, skimmer, calcium reactor and the other reactor I have. I am running it internally to use the heat, my heaters are working almost all the time. I have about 8 feet of vertical and 15 of vertical. Moves just enough water. May get another to run the skimmer and such but happy so far. I Love how quiet the tank is and how easily assessable all of the equipment is. I hated crawling under the stand all the time.

 

[TheRealChrisBrown]

I run my sump from my basement. 11.5' vertical and 22' horizontal. I'm running the Reeflo wahoos which are rated for ~36' of vertical head and max flow of 1500 GPH.

Just because I am curious about it now, how does the horizontal run factor into your head pressure calculation? With 11.5 vertical and 22 horizontal what was your rough estimate of head pressure?

 

[Dr.DiSilicate]

Just because I am curious about it now, how does the horizontal run factor into your head pressure calculation? With 11.5 vertical and 22 horizontal what was your rough estimate of head pressure?

Reef central has a great calculator. That being said, the larger the pipe the less friction on a horizontal run (to a point I suppose) but they do cause head because the friction on the pipe.

 

[static reef]

I have one reeflo hammerhead gold pump in my basement that is supplying flow to a total of 9 tanks at the same time, including two 300dd tanks side by side upstairs. In total, I have over 50 ' of head pressure that predominantly runs horizontal throughout my basement. Both of my DT's are 16' vertical and one is 24' horizontal of the pump. The hammerhead is still turned down to 60-70% total strength, with 0 issues in two years. I sevice the pump bi-annualy and keep a back-up pump on stand by with matching union fittings for an easy replacement if need be.

Another great pump is the dolphin BTW.

I use pvc for almost all plumbing concerns except for a small portion that had to rely on spa/flex hose due to the location (that has been leak free since being placed).

 

[SeaMonkey]

Thanks for all the help here. I sent an email to Reeflo and waiting to hear back but I think I am going to take Kris's recommendation and go with the Reeflo Yellowtail pump. Kris your build thread is really nice hopefully I can get mine to as nice as yours. Good advice Cindy I was going to plumb my water station into the sump so I can do water changes really easy. Once I get some things done I will take some pictures of the project. It wont be for a couple weeks though since I have to move and fix a few other things before I get to this project.

 

[Walter White]

Just because I am curious about it now, how does the horizontal run factor into your head pressure calculation? With 11.5 vertical and 22 horizontal what was your rough estimate of head pressure?

Horizontal doesn't matter that much. I want to say I factored it as every 6' of horizontal as 1' of vertical but that was only as a precaution I don't think it adds up to that much. Id have to go back and look at my notes. I use the RC calculator alot when I planned mine.

 

[Highway66]

Im running an iwaki md70rlt. If I remember correctly I calculated that im at 17' of head for my system. I dont think you can beat iwaki for reliability, they have no seals to wear out, like reeflo. Unfortunately they are power hogs, mine costs me $25/mo just to run the pump. I know a Reeflo in general is cheaper to run than an Iwaki. Personally I would like to try a waveline 1200, dc pump. Not sure if it could handle the head pressure.

Some other things to consider would be running a check valve? Buy a good one you can take apart and clean if you do? And make sure your sump holds all the water in the pipes if the pump goes off regardless of a check valve.

And as everyone has said, I keep a backup pump ready, because everything fails eventually.

 

[SeaMonkey]

So after talking with Reeflo I ended up getting the yellowtail pump. Sounds like it will work great. Also the people at reeflo are great. I would recomend them to anyone.

So the next step is getting all the plumbing parts and possibly a new sump. Is there anywhere in town to get gat valves? Also does anyone know of a good deal on a used sump I could drill and use as a sump. I was thinking around the 120 gallon range.

 

[TheRealChrisBrown]

125 for $100 in Ft. Collins. You'd have to glue up some baffles, but this is a great price....

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/fod/5174762597.html