Do corals like vodka?
- Thread starter alindell21
- Start date
vodka dosing is fairly simple. You are adding an organic carbon source to your water to promote the growth of bacteria that consume Nitrates and Phosphates. Bio Pellets act the exact same way, they provide a surface for the bacteria to grow. Either way you need a way to export the bacteria. Usually this is done by a powerful skimmer. If you don't export the bacteria it will just die and release the nitrate and phosphates it consumed therefor doing no good.
I dose'd Vinegar for a while as it was recomended by RHF instead of Vodka as Vodka suposedly promotes cyno growth which I already had an issue with. Some people also dose sugar instead or a combination of all 3.
Here is a good read.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium
I dose'd Vinegar for a while as it was recomended by RHF instead of Vodka as Vodka suposedly promotes cyno growth which I already had an issue with. Some people also dose sugar instead or a combination of all 3.
Here is a good read.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium
So I just got done reading huge article from reef central. Lots of knowledge. Basically based on aquarium science, anecdotal evidence and trial and error and with testing and having many controls, a reasoning of what methods based upon natural functions and consequences from organic carbon dosing in the aquarium has been thoroughly reviewed. Results include in a basic sense dont use bio pellets as they are ok, but alot of drawbacks, vodka increases cycano bacteria and must controlled and watched carefully measuring PO4 and NO3 and adjusting accordingly lowering the dose or increased based upon the aquarium reaction to it, vinegar is good ,but effects ph and other important elements and usually used in conjunction with kalk. Also vinegar and vodka can be used in conjunction depending on your goals in the aquarium and sugar dosing is a bad idea.
A kind of simple summary is if your aquarium needs it and has been established make sure you know the proper PO4 NO3 levels, research vodka and vinegar and choose one or both. Start off slowly following recommended doses, measure and again measure your PO4 and NO3 you really dont want to reduce all of them completely, but just to maintained low level. Adjust accordingly bases on signs of the tank including fish and coral stress, bacterial growth in the form of slime cyano, or white film and reduce if you need to, to reduce their food supply thus affecting their growth. Basically be very careful and go slow and increase and decrease accordingly trying to to find that perfect maintenance level.
Another thing is that having GAC is recommend and I have read things but am confused to as what brand, expense and what I need. Studies have shown that price really has no affect on performance, but everything is up in arms. I saw that BRS has some GAC called RX.08 or something and they have shown it to be some like miracle carbon which I do know if it marketing, truth or just unneeded and that Ic ould get by with something less expensive. Any Ideas?
A kind of simple summary is if your aquarium needs it and has been established make sure you know the proper PO4 NO3 levels, research vodka and vinegar and choose one or both. Start off slowly following recommended doses, measure and again measure your PO4 and NO3 you really dont want to reduce all of them completely, but just to maintained low level. Adjust accordingly bases on signs of the tank including fish and coral stress, bacterial growth in the form of slime cyano, or white film and reduce if you need to, to reduce their food supply thus affecting their growth. Basically be very careful and go slow and increase and decrease accordingly trying to to find that perfect maintenance level.
Another thing is that having GAC is recommend and I have read things but am confused to as what brand, expense and what I need. Studies have shown that price really has no affect on performance, but everything is up in arms. I saw that BRS has some GAC called RX.08 or something and they have shown it to be some like miracle carbon which I do know if it marketing, truth or just unneeded and that Ic ould get by with something less expensive. Any Ideas?
I dose Vodka, have been for 4 or 5 years now. I originally started because I had a cyano problem, and while it didn't go away immediately...it did go away eventually. However, was that because of the vodka or because I grew a lot with my practices and husbandry? Who knows, but I still dose to this day. I have my vodka set up with a BRS dosing pump because I am terribly forgetful and leave town a lot. I have always ran carbon in a reactor as well as GFO reactor. I honestly don't know if there is a difference between expensive GAC and the cheap stuff. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of BRS carbon from a member who was getting out and I like it, it's called Lignite on BRS.
I know when I started the concern was perhaps starting a monoculture of bacteria, which is why people go with VSV (vinegar sugar vodka). I believe I've seen some recipes with vitamin C or ascorbic acid as well. I don't want to mess with a good thing with my tank so I'll keep dosing vodka. However if I were to start now I'd consider the vinegar and vodka or the VSV method. Here is the article that I based my regimen off of: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
I know when I started the concern was perhaps starting a monoculture of bacteria, which is why people go with VSV (vinegar sugar vodka). I believe I've seen some recipes with vitamin C or ascorbic acid as well. I don't want to mess with a good thing with my tank so I'll keep dosing vodka. However if I were to start now I'd consider the vinegar and vodka or the VSV method. Here is the article that I based my regimen off of: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
IME, it won't help much with phosphate (some, but not enough), but it can do a great job with nitrate. In a reef tank, if you have issues with nitrate, then you have issues with your setup - the rock and sand should be able to keep nitrate very near to zero. I seriously doubt that you could tell a difference in you decided to use V, S or V - most of this is paralysis by analysis and all/any of them work great. I used sugar because it is cheap, very pure and easy to dose.
Don't skip over the POWERFUL skimmer part. I am not talking about some skimmer-of-the-month cone type, but a long-time performer with a large track record. In all honesty, if everybody had one of these skimmers, then they N and P problem would not have been as large in the first place.
I have never used it in a reef - never needed to. I have had great success in a FOWLR. You can starve your coral if you dose too low - the bacteria will win the battle with your coral for the last bit of food (N and P).
I just buy a 50lb sack of GAC on ebay when I need some. It is cheap and effective, but the bottom of the bag has more dust than if some factory or BRS put it into a bucket for you.
Here is 24 and then 48 hours with an ASM G4 with the 5000 pump - I know that a lot of you are thinking that your skimmer is better than an ASM, but I doubt it regardless of what you have heard from a manufacturer about cones, bubble plates, compact designs and the like. The air mixture and contact time is the most important. If you don't believe me, just take a look at what a lifereef can do with a venturi and some pumps that have been around longer than some reefers. In any case, I don't want to get into a skimmer argument, but you should be getting results like this if you dose appropriately one an established tank with some N and P to burn. This is with sugar.
Don't skip over the POWERFUL skimmer part. I am not talking about some skimmer-of-the-month cone type, but a long-time performer with a large track record. In all honesty, if everybody had one of these skimmers, then they N and P problem would not have been as large in the first place.
I have never used it in a reef - never needed to. I have had great success in a FOWLR. You can starve your coral if you dose too low - the bacteria will win the battle with your coral for the last bit of food (N and P).
I just buy a 50lb sack of GAC on ebay when I need some. It is cheap and effective, but the bottom of the bag has more dust than if some factory or BRS put it into a bucket for you.
Here is 24 and then 48 hours with an ASM G4 with the 5000 pump - I know that a lot of you are thinking that your skimmer is better than an ASM, but I doubt it regardless of what you have heard from a manufacturer about cones, bubble plates, compact designs and the like. The air mixture and contact time is the most important. If you don't believe me, just take a look at what a lifereef can do with a venturi and some pumps that have been around longer than some reefers. In any case, I don't want to get into a skimmer argument, but you should be getting results like this if you dose appropriately one an established tank with some N and P to burn. This is with sugar.
Personally I have never found a need to carbon dose. Like jda123 I rely on the Berlin method with heavy skimming a good water change regiment, proper feeding and good old fashioned well established live rock and patience.
I don't run a frefugium or macro or any other type of nutrient export at this point either. I use a small amount of gfo if phosphates exceed .1ppm but anything between 0-.1ppm I don't worry about. Honestly not sure the p04 test kits out there are that accurate anyway. Nitrates, anything under 15ppm I call good. In my personal experience completely stripping the water column of all nutrients is more harmful than having slightly too much. I like to target 5ppm nitrate and .03ppb phosphate and the little bit of carbon (vodka) dosing I did dabble with didn't seem to help with much other than further complicating an already complicated hobby. If you are new to the hobby which sounds like you are I would steer clear of messing with carbon dosing at this time. If you do everything else right it should be a long time before you should even need to consider carbon dosing. Just my oppinion.
I don't run a frefugium or macro or any other type of nutrient export at this point either. I use a small amount of gfo if phosphates exceed .1ppm but anything between 0-.1ppm I don't worry about. Honestly not sure the p04 test kits out there are that accurate anyway. Nitrates, anything under 15ppm I call good. In my personal experience completely stripping the water column of all nutrients is more harmful than having slightly too much. I like to target 5ppm nitrate and .03ppb phosphate and the little bit of carbon (vodka) dosing I did dabble with didn't seem to help with much other than further complicating an already complicated hobby. If you are new to the hobby which sounds like you are I would steer clear of messing with carbon dosing at this time. If you do everything else right it should be a long time before you should even need to consider carbon dosing. Just my oppinion.