Halides vs led thoughts
- Thread starter Roscoe
- Start date
I have a frag tank hooked into the same system as my 65. I have two 250 watt MH over it with 12" of water also have a onyx fixture with just blues on for a little bit of pop. My 65 has two Hydra 52s and two E5s. I'm trying to frag coral our of my frag tank and have the same corals in both tanks to see what I like.
Ask and you may find out, don't ask and you will never know.
Ask and you may find out, don't ask and you will never know.
Both sides f these are Pheonix Suns Montis grown in the same system. The one on the left was under 250w Pheonix 14k bulbs with less than three months on them using Hamilton Cayman Sun reflectors mounted 6" awl. The mh are run from 11 to 9 everyday. The actual frag was 17" below water line. The second frag is in an attached frag tank illuminated by 3 Hydra 26 HDs set to run 14k from 10:30 to 3 and then all blues from 3 to 8:30 with a 1.5 ramp time on each end. The Hydras are mounted 6" awl with the frag 8" bwl. The halides eliminate the shadowing effects that you get with LEDs but LEDs definitely produce better colors. I can't recommend either to get better growth from as each coral seems to prefer one light or the other and neither light can accommodate every coral, there are some that just do better under certain types of lighting and poorly under others. Spectrum also comes into play her and LEDs have the edge because you can change spectrum in minutes with nothing to buy or change physically. MH requires separate bulbs and even then spectrum choices are limited. My next move is to supplement both lighting systems with t5s which I think will eliminate the shadows with LEDs and the lack of color with mh. I'm also adding a third tank into the system with only t5s to really see what gives the best results. I honestly don't think any one system is good for every application but it also comes down to your personal preferences and what looks good to you.
You will get varying opinions here, it will be up to you to decide what is right for you but if sps is your primary goal then I would tell you to go MH hands down. You can choose wether or not you want to supplement with T5 or LED but In in my honest and fairly experienced opinion a good MH bulb/ballast combo will grow and keep you sps healthier than anything else out there with the least amount of fuss and configuration variables.
I started as an led guy using the best LED tech on the market and switched to MH and that wasnt even on my SPS tank. There may be someday in the future when LEDs have been figured out well enough to make them truly the new standard for coral (sps) growth but until that happens you couldn't pay me to go back.
You will get a lot of LED users that will say "I use led X and have great color and growth!". My answer to that is "compared to what?" There is no debate that LED can grow and color sps but in most cases not nearly to the extent of MH. Most the time when you hear that comment its coming from someone who (A) has never used a good MH bulb/ballast combo. (B) Dosnt have a lot of sps other than montis and birdnest. or (C) Isnt willing yet to admit that the thousands of dollars they spent on LEDs don't really work as well as they had hoped or haven't had them over their tank long term to really understand the consequences.
The next argument you will get is that LEDs cost less to run because they consume less power. Well yes and no. Maybe initially you will be able to run two led fixtures in place of two MH fixtures and yes it will consume less power. However, assuming you are lucky enough to even grow that sps into large colonies using said LED in the first place you will soon start to discover that the LED it too directional to provide enough lighting to the whole coral once shading starts to occur. At this point you will have to add at least two more of the same LED fixtures to match the complete coverage that two MHs will provide especially in the shaded areas and thereby you will now be consuming as much or maybe even more power as the MHs. Honestly when you do the math the expense is not that much more massive running MH over led anyway and what would you rather do, save $20-30 in electricity and have so so sps growth or spend an additional $20-30 in electricity and grow your corals to the point that you will easily make that money back in what you will have to frag?
The next thing, Heat issues with MH. Yes! that can be an issue, however plan for it, design your system for it and its not going to be an issue in this state. I run MH on all my tanks and none of them have ever once required a chiller. Not to mention in the winter you will regain some of the energy spent and heat expelled in not having to run a heater as much or at all.
In my opinion, all other things aside one of the biggest reasons to avoid led is that they are just too darn configurable and we don't have enough understanding about SPS coral needs. Most people will choose to configure their lighting to be the way they most want to view their corals and sadly that is not generally what the corals need or want and will eventually decline as a result. There is the other problem of too many variables and unknowns as to which ratio of color chanels will work for you, and what works for one person won't necessarily work for you. When things start to go wrong with the sps and you don't know why you will have that ever burning question in the back of your head asking if its something in the led spectrum you have chosen or not chosen or didn't even know was hurting or helping the situation. With a proven MH setup this is pretty much one concern you can toss right out the window.
All this said I am applying this logic based on the fact that you said "Mostly sps". If you were not going to do mostly sps then yes by all means look at LED as an option. However when it comes to SPS. there is a reason threads like this exist and are as long as they are.
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2203067
I started as an led guy using the best LED tech on the market and switched to MH and that wasnt even on my SPS tank. There may be someday in the future when LEDs have been figured out well enough to make them truly the new standard for coral (sps) growth but until that happens you couldn't pay me to go back.
You will get a lot of LED users that will say "I use led X and have great color and growth!". My answer to that is "compared to what?" There is no debate that LED can grow and color sps but in most cases not nearly to the extent of MH. Most the time when you hear that comment its coming from someone who (A) has never used a good MH bulb/ballast combo. (B) Dosnt have a lot of sps other than montis and birdnest. or (C) Isnt willing yet to admit that the thousands of dollars they spent on LEDs don't really work as well as they had hoped or haven't had them over their tank long term to really understand the consequences.
The next argument you will get is that LEDs cost less to run because they consume less power. Well yes and no. Maybe initially you will be able to run two led fixtures in place of two MH fixtures and yes it will consume less power. However, assuming you are lucky enough to even grow that sps into large colonies using said LED in the first place you will soon start to discover that the LED it too directional to provide enough lighting to the whole coral once shading starts to occur. At this point you will have to add at least two more of the same LED fixtures to match the complete coverage that two MHs will provide especially in the shaded areas and thereby you will now be consuming as much or maybe even more power as the MHs. Honestly when you do the math the expense is not that much more massive running MH over led anyway and what would you rather do, save $20-30 in electricity and have so so sps growth or spend an additional $20-30 in electricity and grow your corals to the point that you will easily make that money back in what you will have to frag?
The next thing, Heat issues with MH. Yes! that can be an issue, however plan for it, design your system for it and its not going to be an issue in this state. I run MH on all my tanks and none of them have ever once required a chiller. Not to mention in the winter you will regain some of the energy spent and heat expelled in not having to run a heater as much or at all.
In my opinion, all other things aside one of the biggest reasons to avoid led is that they are just too darn configurable and we don't have enough understanding about SPS coral needs. Most people will choose to configure their lighting to be the way they most want to view their corals and sadly that is not generally what the corals need or want and will eventually decline as a result. There is the other problem of too many variables and unknowns as to which ratio of color chanels will work for you, and what works for one person won't necessarily work for you. When things start to go wrong with the sps and you don't know why you will have that ever burning question in the back of your head asking if its something in the led spectrum you have chosen or not chosen or didn't even know was hurting or helping the situation. With a proven MH setup this is pretty much one concern you can toss right out the window.
All this said I am applying this logic based on the fact that you said "Mostly sps". If you were not going to do mostly sps then yes by all means look at LED as an option. However when it comes to SPS. there is a reason threads like this exist and are as long as they are.
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2203067
It baffles me that LEDs cannot replicate the growth of MH. Not that I'm arguing the point - it just suprises me.
As I understand it, and I'm sure there's more to it - there is chlorophyll A and chlorophyll B (something like that). One uses more of the blue spectrum and the other the red. Because water filters red, corals tend more towards the blue, whereas plants use both - one is more used for growing and the other for flowering as I understand it. That's why we use predominantly red for algae scrubbers. And we seem to be fine tuning into the blue spectrum with Rebel Blue LEDs. Maybe LED systems don't have enough red?
As I understand it, and I'm sure there's more to it - there is chlorophyll A and chlorophyll B (something like that). One uses more of the blue spectrum and the other the red. Because water filters red, corals tend more towards the blue, whereas plants use both - one is more used for growing and the other for flowering as I understand it. That's why we use predominantly red for algae scrubbers. And we seem to be fine tuning into the blue spectrum with Rebel Blue LEDs. Maybe LED systems don't have enough red?
That thread is 4 years old it may as well be from the Stone Age considering how much LEDs have progressed in that time frame. Also worth note is the true cost of mh needs to include at least $50 for new bulbs yearly, my 14k Pheonix set me back $80 each and I have six of them. Mind you that par output doesn't decrease much in mh bulbs but spectrum shift can be quite dramatic. I'm not bashing mh but they aren't the best light out, neither are LEDs. Either can be made to work but both typically work better in combination with another technology. And I can compare growth and color between the two as I have both on the same system different tanks. Neither light will do it all. I think it's important to note that lighting is only one factor in determining coral growth and color and even the best light with bad water parameters will give disappointing results.
Depends on the led. I know that if I turn my red up past 15% I see algae growth pick up and I'll have to scrape the glass every 4-5 days instead of every 10 but imo and ime LEDs can grow corals just as well as mh. People used to say the same thing about t5s. People are naturally resistant to change and the hiccups that always come with new technology just fuel the fire.
I went with LEDs after being a long time MH user in my SPS dominant tank. Lasted 6-7 months then I went back. Colors didn't pop and growth was noticeably slowed. Didn't read about this, I actually saw it in my own tank. Know quite a few club members that did the same. LED work great for everything else, not so much for SPS. I should also mention that I had to get way more LED units to get the same coverage as my MH
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