Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

jahmic

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#1
The temp on my 1996 Legacy Outback climbed on me this weekend on the way back from the mountains. Pulled the car over, allowed it to cool down, then drove home. The temp gauge stayed under the "halfway mark" the entire ride home, though I did baby it and keep the car under 2500 RPMs.

Topped off the coolant when I got home (it had boiled out of the overflow reservoir) and took it to my usually subie shop yesterday. As requested, they flushed the radiator and changed the thermostat, but said the car was still heating up too much...so they knocked 50% off my bill. They want me to bring it back next week so they can take a better look at things (they squeezed me in on their schedule), but I'd rather take it to a shop or someone that specializes in cooling systems and knows what to look for...these guys were taking shots in the dark IMO to diagnose the problem as they gave me a list of "possible problems" even after working on my car for 2hrs.

Here's what I know:
- I ran the car at idle, and when the temp gets up above that 50% mark the fans kick on and bring the temp back down
- As far as I can tell, I don't have a coolant leak
- No signs of a blown head gasket, and my 2.2 engine is MUCH less likely to have that issue than the 2.5
- With the cap removed and the engine running, the coolant level never "moves" in the radiator...no drop, no turbulence...I suspect a blockage in the cooling system is the issue
- Water pump was changed 60k miles ago, should be fine
- Heat still blows hot air

Thoughts? I don't have the tools or garage space to DIY this job, so I need to find a local, reliable shop that can knock this out for me. I'd just like to go in there with some sort of idea of what the issue might be so I don't get taken. ;)

If anybody has any input on whether I'm on the right track with suspecting a blockage somewhere in the cooling system (heater core would be my top pick), and where I might be able to bring the car to get this taken care of, it'd be much appreciated.
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#2
Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

Whenever I have had any issues with any of my subarus I have taken it to Suba performance. Troy is a great guy and usually doesn't charge too much for that kind of stuff. They are worth giving a call. If you tell tem what's goin on over the phone they might be able to let you know what is actually going on. I have fixed multiple issues by just giving them a quick phone call. If it is something simple I have a garage and tools id be more than happy to give you a hand.
 

Haulin Oates

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#3
Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

I'm not a subie expert, but generally most manufacturers take coolant from the head to the heater core as a side flow, so it doesn't interrupt engine cooling if there is a problem in the heater core.
A few questions:
How hot did it actually get?
Auto or manual trans?
Do you have a power steering fluid cooler?
Was the AC running?
Electric or clutch fan?
 

jahmic

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#4
Thanks for the tip. I've heard of that shop before, but forgot about them. I think I opted out of going to their shop a while back only because going to the place I frequent saved me a couple hundred bucks on a CV joint and rear shock replacement.

I definitely need a shop that can troubleshoot...the place I go to is great and cheap if you already know what's wrong...otherwise I think it's not the best option. One guy there has great communication skills, but when I bring my car in I just get: "Car need fix?" and they wait for me to tell them what to do. :p

I'll give those guys a call tomorrow and see what they say.
 

jahmic

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M.A.S.C Club Member
#5
Blazinjack;255096 said:
I'm not a subie expert, but generally most manufacturers take coolant from the head to the heater core as a side flow, so it doesn't interrupt engine cooling if there is a problem in the heater core.
A few questions:
How hot did it actually get?
Auto or manual trans?
Do you have a power steering fluid cooler?
Was the AC running?
Electric or clutch fan?
Ok good to know about the heater core.

My car doesn't have a marked temp gauge...but it didn't pin up to the "H" mark. I just noticed it was above 50% and rising so I pulled over immediately...it got up to maybe 3/4 of the gauge when I pulled over and popped the hood.

5 speed transmission

No power steering cooler line

I'm about 90% sure the AC wasn't on. We were West of the Eisenhower tunnel when this happened so it was still cool outside. FWIW...I ran the car at idle today and turned on the AC...the fans do come on with the AC running.

Fan is electric
 

jahmic

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M.A.S.C Club Member
#6
Oh...one thing I noted about the fans that seem odd.

With the car idling and the AC turned OFF, the fan's seem to be kicking on later than they should. The car never hit that 50% mark in the past, and I'm pretty sure they're supposed to turn on when the temp gets that high. At idle, the car approaches that 3/4 mark before the fans turn on, and they shut off when the temp gets down to the 50% mark. Essentially...it's just maintaining a hotter temp that it used to.

Could this point to a simple electrical issue? I SUCK at electrical work and diagnosis, and have no idea if there is an independent temp gauge/switch for the fans that might be malfunctioning. Since they did turn on with the AC, and eventually kick on when the car heats up, I just assumed the relay was OK and figured something else was allowing the car to heat up. But, if there's a temp sensor or switch somewhere on the fan circuit that went bad I suppose that could explain things.
 

09bumblebee

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#7
What did the coolant look like? Was it dark and nasty looking? Any chunks or sluge in the reservoir? Sometimes it's best to pull the lower radiator hose and drain the radiator and stick the garden hose in the cap and flush the radiator for awhile. You want to look and see if any chunks come out of the lower radiator while flushing.
 

Haulin Oates

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#8
Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

09bumblebee;255102 said:
What did the coolant look like? Was it dark and nasty looking? Any chunks or sluge in the reservoir? Sometimes it's best to pull the lower radiator hose and drain the radiator and stick the garden hose in the cap and flush the radiator for awhile. You want to look and see if any chunks come out of the lower radiator while flushing.
Had to do this on a blazer I had in high school.
It's possible there are 2 sensors for temp, and the one for the gauge is reading hotter than the one for the fan. I would bet the gauge is reading block temp somewhere. The fan may read around the thermostats.
 

jahmic

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#9
Re: Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

09bumblebee;255102 said:
What did the coolant look like? Was it dark and nasty looking? Any chunks or sluge in the reservoir? Sometimes it's best to pull the lower radiator hose and drain the radiator and stick the garden hose in the cap and flush the radiator for awhile. You want to look and see if any chunks come out of the lower radiator while flushing.
When it boiled over it was in fact dark and nasty. Didn't smell like oil or have any sheen to it...but was rusty for sure. There were a couple flakes floating.

When I looked on the ground under the car it was a mix of green coolant and rust brown crap.
 

jahmic

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#11
J.guokas;255109 said:
Radiator could be blocked. I had that happen to me before.
My thoughts as well. Just because they flushed it doesn't mean it wasn't blocked, correct? I mean it could have very poor flow and coolant can still find its way through during a flush if I'm not mistaken.

It also happened to me on an old Honda...so I had the radiator pulled and "rodded" to clear the blockage. It leaked a few years later as the corrosion had already started though.

I really don't wanna get a new radiator and find out that's not the problem, but it does seem like the most likely explanation the more I think about it. Now I just need to decide if I pay someone to do the work or get a little dirty. The shop I went to quoted me $280 parts and labor for the job.
 

jahmic

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#13
Cap hasn't been replaced...but I didn't have it pressure tested either so I don't know if it's bad.

It's probably original though...which translates to 205k miles on it. Only thing is I didn't notice it leaking...
 

aztecdreams

Bat Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#14
Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

I replaced the radiator on my wife's 97 Subaru for about $60. Grabbed one from the junkyard and it only took a couple hours.
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#15
Need mechanic for Subaru cooling system

Go grab a radiator a pack of beer and swing it by my house we will knock it out in no time lol.
 

jahmic

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#16
aztecdreams;255120 said:
I replaced the radiator on my wife's 97 Subaru for about $60. Grabbed one from the junkyard and it only took a couple hours.
Thought about going to the pull n pay to see what I could find...maybe I'll call around to some other yards and see what I can find. I've seen some aftermarket replacements for cheap, but I know they aren't direct bolt-ons.

J.guokas;255121 said:
Go grab a radiator a pack of beer and swing it by my house we will knock it out in no time lol.
I really appreciate the offer! Sounds like a plan :)

...I'll shop around for a radiator this week and get in touch once I have one on hand.
 

High Plains Reefer

Bat Fish
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#17
sounds like the begining of a head gasket problem after you do the rad take it out and run it hard if it runs hot or over heats but if you baby it and its ok thats classic subie head gasket
 
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