Preparing for the 300DD, some questions.

[Fitz19d]

[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Alright, this is a very ahead of the curve feeling out for things. I likely wont even start to have my stand built for another month or three. I need to get some lizards sold, and probably get rid of this 50 square foot monster desk or figure out how to cut it down to size. (As heavy as it is not a bad idea to ditch the extra weight)

Fish and Craigar pointed out some potential issues for my room where I'd like the tank. Mainly against the outer support wall by the windows. And remove the duct beneath to run the pipes. It doesn't get direct light so no algae issues. Bigger thing was fear of humidity.

I'm hoping it won't be so bad as mentioned. I need to make sure the window drains are good and clear, and another forum has provided the solution of foil backed rigid foam board for a seal and do plywood or something followed by a massive "fat head" wall sticker over it. I might opt to try and paint it over and lightly trace the window outline so I can remove later. But ideally this will be good for 20+ years. (Fear is if I have to sell house for any reason.) So right now conundrum is if it will be as bad as feared, and if so, what's best way to aesthetically make the windows look good but protect them too. Hanging a plastic sheet won't cut it.

I'm hoping though it's not that bad between a basement sump, and possibly running dehumidifier or fans (maybe an extra pot grow style fan in the other duct). Has a double door opening so I'd think airflow into vaulted living room would also be good? Other thing was to maybe just put it 1.5 to 2 feet away from the wall. But I was also lead to believe for a support wall that would be possibly bad? (Shear forces maybe?) Fish/Craigar already mentioned doing 2 metal joists with a 4x4 across them. I am certainly going to be doing some work on the floor but that's for another thread. I've also seen a hood suggested, but I think I'd rather not, or if I did, it's going to be a pulley based floating one so it doesn't hinder me as much working with tank.

My other option, though I am not thrilled is using the opposite wall. But very against it due to no vent. Wife doesn't like idea of cutting into the floor even if it is really just pulling up laminate and floor boards. Which as far as those go I think I've given up on trying to protect them from the stand? I don't want to try to mix tile and laminate, I'm not that handy at all and would be kinda costly I think to do. I did see one suggestion of non permeable barrier + 3/4 marine plywood underneath stand might save it from impressions? Unsure if that's bad for creating leveling or flexing issues.


I've attached the stand design I think I want to go with steel wise. Basically that look except it's not rimless. [/FONT]


Any input? Sadly, I've gotten great response on my local gun and a gaming forum, nothing on RC.

 

[that0neguy1126]

Not sure I completely understand the issues or questions here.

Humidity, as long as you cover up the top of the tank I doubt you will have an issue. I have a similar size tank, 240g with 2x 100gal tanks as sumps and a small 20gal frag tank. my tank has lids over the opening and one of the sumps is covered. that leaves about 12sq ft of water surface directly exposed to the air which is way more then you have. My tank runs at 78 degrees and my house at 68ish. never had an issues with humidity.

What are your concerns about the windows? Is the tank going in front of them and you want to cover them up?

I have my tank sitting directly on the floorboards. Removed the carpet under it and then replaced the whole room with hardwood. Kept enough hardwood that if I do move I can remove the tank and install the rest of the hardwood where the tank was.

As for floor joists and supporting them. I didn't install any supports under mine. But my tank sits directly over the I Beam and the joists run perpendicular to the tank. I've measured over the years and there has been no change or bends in the joists. You can install supports though if you think it will be an issue. The main reason I didn't is the floor beneath my tank is the basement which is a raised floor. so it would do me no good to just transfer the weight to that.

 

[Fitz19d]

Main problem really just thoughts on humidity issues. Other questions I had I think I've mostly got worked out.

Trying to express 20 thoughts and ideas at once, comes out bad especially without knowing every detail I see/know .

Problem with cover on the tank wouldn't that affect lighting corals? Any of these tanks near a window or right next to wall? I think the concern was with proximity, an increase in issues there. I can certainly see in winter there being excess condensation if theres an 80 degree tank next to it. But suppose back could be insulated a bit. Or again just give it some space from wall and at a minimum I'd be able to give the wall a wipe down that way.

Concerns about the windows? Just that there is going to be a lot of water drops of condensation forming on them with that much water in the room and the tank right next to them. I originally wanted to let the neighborhood see tank at night but decided leaving it clear background would take away from my own viewing so painting it now.

Tank will run perpindicular, but my joists seem to be spaced a bit wider apart than I've seen most places. The window wall is right over where the joists disapear over the concrete foundation, the Ibeam on other wall may actually be past it in the empty space between wall and stairs, I'm not sure. But not a great option because of the trying to avoid using anything other than the vent for basement access due to wife.

Unfinished basement room, so not a raised floor for me, and while I am probably good, it's the whole I want 2-3x over what I need to be extra safe. (What happens when I have 8 200lb people over looking at it for example.) That and room will still have my computer desk.

 

[that0neguy1126]

Yeah my tank is next to a wall. It's an internal wall separating the living room from the kitchen. Opposite wall is a large window about 12ft away. I keep the blinds closed though and it faces east so no real issue with sunlight. I have never had any condensation on the tank or on the walls. There is some on the lid for the overflows though.

Doesn't affect light really. im sure there is a slight drop but its not noticeable.

The floor should be built to hold a uniform live load of 40 PSF. So when I look at my tank its roughly 2400 lbs. it's spread over 8ft of joists. that span a 15' length. That 8x15x40 = 4800 psf that that should hold. safely. and there's another 8ft of room that the tank doesnt sit on which would make the whole room built to hold 9600lbs. Also the room should be built to hold 1.5 - 2x that minimum. I've had 10ish people in the room before for party's and holiday's and such and never had an issue and its been about 6yrs now.
However, if you can reinforce either by adding more joists (before the weight is added to the room) or by using support beams I would do so. It's just not possible for me.

**Disclaimer, I am not an architect and if your tank crashes through the floor it's not my fault

There is a good read here about it.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php

 

[Craigar]

My concern in front of the window is

A. algae issues
B. Salt creep on the window with it being your front window it's going to look horrible and you can't clean it

 

[that0neguy1126]

One other concern I would have next to the window is heat. Sunlight (even if it isn't shining directly into the tank) can heat up the area near a window quite a bit even on cold days.

 

[Fitz19d]

I'm in this room constantly. Have a lizard cage next to window, and a few geckos that don't like too much heat so something I've had to monitor in the past. The way the house faces, and the blinds closed, I don't get any direct light really with the porch awning. Could always even do better blackout blinds etc. But with the other proposed mitigation with the foil backed board and walling it up basically think I'll be good.

I didnt mention, besides just pulling it out from the wall a bit so I can get behind it, I could shift it more into the corner which is very corner of the house. Not flush, still want room to get to it on the side, but would clear one window and leave the other easier to reach with less distance from wall.

 

[that0neguy1126]

Infrared radiation doesn't care if the blinds are open or not as long as whatever you use to close them up is insulated I doubt you would have an issue. Also if it's not getting direct light it wouldn't be much of an issue either.

 

[Fitz19d]

Getting ahead of myself, but any thoughts on the ideal sump? Lots of options since I have the basement sump. Though I have some kinda cramped stairs to get down. Would a standard 125g be a bit too deep to work with? My 210 had I think a 65 or 75? Something like that, being under a stand I had some challenges and for a 300 definately thinking bigger. I know the big rubbermaid tubs are cheap but are like a big pond, rather than an orderly segmented/baffled sump with sections for everything. I imagine at some point I'll get into all kinds of dosing and fancy equipment which with the tub seems ideal for just a big refugium and a skimmer on a platform is about it. Would some kinda giant frag flat type thing almost be good. (Possibly double doing sump duties but also having a open section for frag growout or general bad fish timeout.)

 

[that0neguy1126]

I use 2 of these in my basement as the sump.

http://www.murdochs.com/shop/rubbermaid-stock-tank-100-gallon/

The 1st one is great for the return because it allows all the bubbles to settle. Then I connect it using 2 3" sections of pipe and bulkheads. Great to work with, lots of room and lots of water volume which helps a bunch.

For a frag tank I just piped off one of the return pumps and then have it drain back to the sump. With that much room there is no reason to have baffles and the size is much better then any sump you will find.

 

[SynDen]

I use 2 of these in my basement as the sump.

http://www.murdochs.com/shop/rubberm...nk-100-gallon/

The 1st one is great for the return because it allows all the bubbles to settle. Then I connect it using 2 3" sections of pipe and bulkheads. Great to work with, lots of room and lots of water volume which helps a bunch.

For a frag tank I just piped off one of the return pumps and then have it drain back to the sump. With that much room there is no reason to have baffles and the size is much better then any sump you will find.

I am going to be using a 150g rubbermaid like these for my cryptic sump. Will house a ATS as well but 75% of it will be divided off for low flow cryptic and other 25% will be equipment and ats. These work great although they do increase the surface area that has contact with air thus increasing evap though, but the sump should have the most gas exchange possible, for large tanks like these, imo

but honestly if it houses your equipment and gives you the water volume you are looking for then its a good sump, but i would say go for the biggest you can possibly fit in the space you have avaible

 

[that0neguy1126]

I covered one of them with a thin sheet of acrylic to prevent some evap. Also it was the one the tank drains into and the amount of bubbles created was creating a huge amount of salt creep. The sheet of acrylic took care of that.

 

[Fitz19d]

It's not a full basement to use as fish room though, so space still matters a bit. Rooms like a small bedroom in any condo/apartment. And it's got double duty with dog kennels and a little bit of storage but not much. Do have an exterior window that can be put to use if need be maybe.

So frag isn't mandatory, but neat if it could be same system and would be a small thing like maybe a 2x2 squares worth. My issue with those tubs while cheap and great was seemed like playing with skimmer height a pain? They are deeper than wide so with less foot print possibly messier with trying to put a bunch of reactors and equipment in them unless they all have pumps runing them external of the tubs?

Having not done quite such a large system, I'm not sure what depth I'll need for an appropriate large skimmer. I know I do want to try an ATS. Hoping I dont get so many sps that I'm needing a calcium. I'd like to find a balance between water changes which I believe a lot in with the dosing/treating method many do with huge tanks. May try the genesis reef ato/water changer or some of these other pseudo automated systems. Which is another reason I'm at somewhat of a space premium, besides sump gotta have the room just for big rodi and salt mixing drums.

 

[Chris_W]

You could always do an external skimmer and not worry about water depth.

 

[SynDen]

Ya external skimmer would be the way to go, although with my tank I am not planning for skimmer. It will be possible to, fairly easily, add one, but I'm making every effort to do away with it

 

[that0neguy1126]

I am converting to an external in another few weeks but have been using an in sump one for years. I built a little stand out of 1/4" PVC pipe for it so it sits in about 7" of water. With my ATO the water level only changes by a half inch or so.

 

[Chris_W]

I use an external on my 150 because I started with a Rubbermaid sump. Cost and effort wise, it was easier for my to go external. Changed to a custom sump and could go either way now with the chambers and ato. I like the flexibility of having an external now. I can keep the supply in the dirtiest section of the sump without worrying about the skimmer footprint.

That being said, my small cube has an internal skimmer and it works great as well. It comes down to the application and ease of use/maintenance.

 

[ShawnM]

Hey Nick I have a 300DD set up very similar to what you are going for. I had to reinforce the floor, sump to the basement, I have windows on two sides, humidity issues etc. I'd invite you to come over and have a look but I'm in Lone Tree, so quite the drive. However, if you are interested give me a call sometime and I can tell you what I've done, and what I like and don't like.
Shawn Foery 303.217.3016