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Go Fallow or Live with Ich

Discussion in 'General Reefkeeping Discussion' started by cfendya, May 24, 2018.

  1. cfendya

    cfendya Copepod

    Evening all...I'm contemplating going fallow in my DT as I brought home a fish a few months ago that had ich and like most newbies, failed to QT. I know my DT is infected now but the fish that brought it in as well as the rest of my fish are doing completely fine and have been for a while now.

    I keep reading about going fallow and some say how bad Ich is for fish even if they aren't showing signs of infection so trying to figure out next steps.

    My situation is I don't currently have another tank to put the fish in for 75 days and honestly, the thought of standing up a new tank, monitoring ammonia levels, and all that seems like a ton of maintenance. To add on to this, since the tank is less than a year old, I'm still acquiring new corals and knowing corals have a chance of bringing ich in, standing up yet another QT tank just for corals seems even more tedios.

    What's the general thoughts on all this? It seems like some of you just deal with it where others are religious about QTing everything wet that goes into their DT.
     
  2. Dr.DiSilicate

    Dr.DiSilicate Kraken M.A.S.C Club Member M.A.S.C. B.O.D. B.O.D. Member-at-Large

    In my opinion... a tank is NEVER going t be without ich. If your fish are healthy and happy don’t go they a turn the log fallow period. Be very careful to only introduce healthy fish in the future and be careful to introduce fish that are likely to get along. I personally feed medicated food for a few days when I get a new fish (which isn’t very offen) I also turn the lights down to avoid aggression.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  3. Archit

    Archit Copepod Platinum Sponsor M.A.S.C Club Member

    I totally agree with you -- some of us are die-hard QT guys, others are "live with it" guys. Personally, I'm a "live with it" guy -- to me, it is close to impossible to be 100% certain everything is going to be ich free entering the tank; if you're going to go the QT route, then you need to QT literally everything ... rocks, corals, inverts, obviously the fish ... which is not as easy to do and you'll have casualties during QT.

    Personally, here are a few things I do for my personal tank:

    -- Feed good quality food and a lot (of course, have a kick ass filtration to support it). When I had my 275 setup back in Boston, I was feeding my fish around 7 times a day. 3-4 times were flakes; 1-2 times was frozen food (either mysis/ brine or our own blend), and 1 time was live black worms (or fish noodles as my kiddo call them). Of course, I had 2 giant skimmers to support my horrible feeding habit ...
    -- Use an acclimation box for fish -> this serves multiple purposes:
    ---- You can monitor the fish before "releasing" it into your aquarium.
    ---- You can get it to eat but putting all the food in the acclimation box ; fish will be surrounded by food, and will be bound to nibbling to starting to eat
    ---- Your existing fish are forced to come to the new fish because you'll be putting all the food in the acclimation box, and food for your existing fish will be coming out of the holes of the acclimation box. This way when the new fish FINALLY gets released, your existing fish aren't as pissy :)

    So my personal opinion is to feed well, and keep the water quality best you can. Of course, that doesn't mean you should buy sick fish! :) Always always always buy healthy fish, but just don't go crazy with the QTing every single thing. For me, I usually have a separate hospital tank and if I notice anything bad on any of the new fish (while in the acclimation box), they go in the hospital tank for treatment.

    Hope that helps!

    - Archit
     
  4. Cherub

    Cherub Shark M.A.S.C Club Member

    I would go fallow. It's pretty messed up to expect your fish to get over it. It shows no value for their lives or well being.

    **edit**

    this is just my opinion. it wasn't in contrast to anyone elses post. sorry if it came across that way.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
    timnem70 and Haddonisreef like this.
  5. cfendya

    cfendya Copepod

    Appreciate all the opinions and by no means am I here to start a war ;)

    Again, being relatively new to all this, take this for what it's worth...but from everything I've read and researched, how is any tank truly ich free (to Dr's post)? It seems as though there are just too many variables going on and most of them against you. Having a separate QT tank for fish and one for corals seems borderline impossible to accomplish (at least in my current situation) so it seems like I'd be constantly in a fallow type situation (at least until my DT is full of corals which I'm not sure ever happens o_O)
     
    Cherub and Archit like this.
  6. Legonch

    Legonch Emerald Reef Supply M.A.S.C Club Member Featured Sponsor

    Im a die hard QT person. I learned this the hard way when I first started, lost pretty much everything from velvet and ich.

    I went fallow in my DT for 90 days. Every fish that has gone in there has been in copper for 30 days. Two rounds of prazi, and a general antibiotic for 7 days.

    Any coral goes into a qt for 30 days. Multiple dips. I remove all corals from the plugs, rinse them, and glue them on my plugs.

    I do this for all the fish I sell, and all the coral I sell. Those of you that have bought fish and coral from me, can see how healthy things are at the end of QT.

    Id say go fallow, treat all your fish in a hospital tank. Then you know you are back to a clean display.

    Just my .02 worth.
     
    Archit likes this.
  7. Archit

    Archit Copepod Platinum Sponsor M.A.S.C Club Member

    Lol some people are overly passionate about their beliefs and that's totally fine :)

    No one is wrong -- everyone will tell you something based on their experience and / or based on what they have seen.

    But to answer your question, people that do achieve 100% ich free tanks do usually have atleast 2 hospital/qt tanks. 1 that can support corals long term, and another where treatments can be administered to the fish. It is a long process, but definitely comes with a great sense of satisfaction.

    Neither way is wrong and both have their pros and cons. I'd pick with what you feel more realistic and comfortable.

    Do read some posts by PaulB if you get a chance (I believe he's on reef2reef and reefcentral. He's definitely pretty active on BostonReefers.org) -- he has been in the hobby for longer than anyone I know and has some very strong opinions regarding QT and the diet of fish :) he is one of the main reasons I started feeding my fish live blackworms and now, would never have my fish go without them :)

    Sent from my SM-G960U using MASC mobile app
     
    cfendya likes this.
  8. cfendya

    cfendya Copepod

    When you have the infrastructure of a store/business I'm sure that's easy to accomplish and I agree with all your points.

    I know what store, fish, and when I introduced it and will never go back. It's great to hear the effort you put in to make sure you provide a healthy animal and will definitely keep that in mind the next time I'm seeking something new for my tank.
     
    Legonch likes this.
  9. cfendya

    cfendya Copepod

    Completely agree and like most things, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. I again appreciate your thoughts and guidance and will certainly reed up PaulB's posts. Thanks again!
     
  10. Dr.DiSilicate

    Dr.DiSilicate Kraken M.A.S.C Club Member M.A.S.C. B.O.D. B.O.D. Member-at-Large

    No offense taken on my part! I love conversations like this. It’s great to learn. I totally agree with QT. I just don’t think anyone should stress currently healthy fish. IMO

    I would recommend QT in the future. Plus feeding a lot of high quality foods. Having a good filtration and skimmer is certainly important.

    Feed heavy for healthy fish and coral but skim more heavily!
     
    Legonch, Archit and cfendya like this.
  11. neil82

    neil82 Cuttle Fish M.A.S.C Club Member

    Definitely a highly debated topic. No right answer in my opinion. I do not QT. I rarely add fish or lose fish to illness.
     
  12. Legonch

    Legonch Emerald Reef Supply M.A.S.C Club Member Featured Sponsor

    Awesome!!! Thanks!
     
  13. Legonch

    Legonch Emerald Reef Supply M.A.S.C Club Member Featured Sponsor

    Very good points! Healthy fish fight off stuff that you never see. Id say 90 percent of tanks have ich in them, just like the cold virus that we deal with. You see the effects when you/fish immune system is down for some reason.

    And garlic does not cure ich!
     
  14. Dr.DiSilicate

    Dr.DiSilicate Kraken M.A.S.C Club Member M.A.S.C. B.O.D. B.O.D. Member-at-Large

    Ooh heck no! Just, sometimes, encourages fish to eat.
     
  15. zombie

    zombie Tuna M.A.S.C Club Member

    If I were you, I would look into finding a cheapo 40, 55 or something you can use for treatment and watch the remaining fish like a hawk. If any show even the slightest sign of not eating or visible spots, get them into the temporary setup ASAP and treat with alternating copper and prazi with a FW dip before moving into QT. Keep display fallow for 45 days. Ich lifecycle is only 30 days so 45 days is more than adequate.

    Every new fish should be QT as should coral or you will eventually kick yourself for not doing it. Running a QT system is ridiculously simple if you're smart about how you set it up. One easy foolproof way is to get a 10-40 gallon tank (depends on species) an HOB filter you can run carbon in, and a sponge filter. Leave the sponge in your sump until you're ready for a new arrival and no need to worry about ammonia as it's always cycled and ready for fish by being in your sump.

    I will always QT after losing $500 worth of fish and coral to a marine velvet outbreak from a mandarin. Lost half my fish in 3 days and lost half the remaining trying to treat with copper and they didn't recover in time. A bunch of coral died from the tank ammonia spike.

    I do a minimalist QT on new arrivals where I do a FW dip before they enter (coral dip for corals) and I observe for 4 weeks (1-2 weeks for coral). If I notice anything suspicious, I transfer to a 10 gallon tank to treat copper and tank transfer method to clear up the problem. Before going into display they get another dip.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using MASC mobile app
     
  16. asn-naso

    asn-naso Tuna M.A.S.C Club Member

    If you decide you want a QT setup, I have a complete one for sale. I'm asking $100, and it comes with a heater, net, HOB filter, PVC for the fish to hide in. It is between a 25-30 gal acrylic tank. I'll even throw in some copper, and copper tests if you'd like.

    I live in Centennial, near I-25
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    TheRealChrisBrown, Legonch and Cherub like this.
  17. flagg37

    flagg37 Copepod

    The life cycle of ich is more than 30 days. The tomite can incubate on the substrate for up to 72 days. At that point if it doesn’t find a live host (a fish) then it will die.

    I use the ttm method to break the life cycle of ich.
     
    Legonch likes this.
  18. zombie

    zombie Tuna M.A.S.C Club Member

    I must have confused it with velvet. I've never had ich but had velvet once and it was deadly.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using MASC mobile app
     
  19. Legonch

    Legonch Emerald Reef Supply M.A.S.C Club Member Featured Sponsor

    Velvet is really bad. Velvet multiplies so much faster, and is so much more damaging. You can expect to have massive secondary infections from the damage done to the skin and gills, so time is of the essence to treat velvet. Velvet can wipe out a tank in days. Ive had it when I was new, and never want it again.

    Ive got a fish in QT that came in from the wholesaler with velvet. Treated it quickly, fish is doing okay. Nasty stuff!! If that fish would have went into a reef tank right away, that would have been bad stuff.....
     
  20. zombie

    zombie Tuna M.A.S.C Club Member

    That's why I QT everything now no matter what. Mine happened from a mandarin goby and everybody said "mandarins don't need QT cause they can't get parasites". Those people were wrong.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using MASC mobile app
     

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