Opinions on Flame Angel Reefsafe? (not again....I know)

[Aaron]

In my travels this last summer, I ran across a ~1000gal display at the Tokyo aquarium with frags of SPS that were still growing out. There were something like 20 juv flame angelfish in it. It was so impressive and got me thinking (and wanting) :biggrin1: I was talking to another club member and he mentioned that a few of you guys have some extensive experience with Flame Angels.

She's in my QT, will be the final fish addition to my tank, and ready to go this weekend. I just wanted a few cautionary tales and/ or reassurances before she takes the plunge. It's from the Marshal Islands and has a rounded (not beaked mouth); I've heard myths(?) about the relevance of these features.

My tank is 90Gal+30Gal Fuge (2 years old). It has a mix of SPS (acros/ monti), 2 anemones, and Zoanthids that I love and don't want to loose. On the other hand, there are a few small frags of LPS (a brain, a goni, and a favia) and 2 croc clams that I can move to one of my nanos if needed.

Fish:
1 Female Bellus Angel after research I've found that this is unlikely to be an issue since it is a member of the Swallow Tail Angel family.
1 hippo tang
1 purple tang
2 Osc clowns
2 Saddleback clowns
1 flasher wrasse
2 firefish
1 6-line wrasse
1 diamond goby
1 pajama cardinal

Sadly, I had to get rid of a Male Bellus last year because he did not like my hippo tang, but now all the fish live in harmony. Of course the clown fish pairs "bark" at each other occasionally, but nothing has escalated beyond that for the year or so I've had 4 clowns in 1 tank.

 

[JNG]

I currently have one in my reef. This is my second one and neither have/had messed with my corals. I have also helped out a friend tear half his tank apart to get to the flame angel he so loved. Would you be able to place a couple different corals in your qt to see if it starts nibbling on stuff. Just a thought, not sure if it would help out not.
Jerry

 

[that0neguy1126]

I have had 2 over the life of this tank and neither picked at corals. I do have a coral beauty also that does not pick either.

Feed well, if they get hungry, they will look for other means of food (aka your corals).

 

[280g-reefman]

Mine never touched a thing.

 

[subpotentjoe]

I have had both. The first one I got was def. interested in nipping corals. My tank was new then and mostly frags. The second one was fine but my tank was mostly colonies. I think they will always nip at corals its just far less impact on a tank full of colonies vs new tank with mostly frags. Also a well established tank will give them other things to nip at besides coral like feather dusters, sponges, tube worms. My advice is to wait until you have a lot of colonies/growth on your live rock and it should be fine.

 

[djkms]

Every flame I have ever attempted in the last few years nipped at SPS.

 

[fishguy69]

Give the angel what it needs nutritionally and it should leave things alone. Starve it and it will feast on most anything.

 

[DyM]

I've had two flame's in my 72 gallon for 5+ yrs, never an issue with it nipping on SPS. Even last year I did some major coral remodeling (new reef term) where I took a lot of duplicate colonies out, and a lot of new frags in. I do feed the fish twice a day, so they are fat and happy. I also have two yellow clown gobies, and they too are known to be SPS nippers, not problems there either. However my powder blue tang is really picky on where new SPS and LPS go. He'll aggressively attack the coral if he doesn't like it where I put it... weird. Also, same fish destroys leathers, and sometimes eats zoa's. So there are some personality issues with fish, even when a certain trait may or may not be there.

 

[Dbarnes]

Opinions on Flame Angel Reefsafe? (not again....I know)

Train it to eat from a trap in QT, if it picks at stuff it is a simple fix rather than a total tear apart of the tank to fetch him

 

[djkms]

Give the angel what it needs nutritionally and it should leave things alone. Starve it and it will feast on most anything.

Are you sure? I find it to be more behavioral (instinctual or curiosity) then out of hunger. Currently I feed a 225 stocked with 23 fish 4-5 cubes of food a day (a mixture of PE Mysis, Rods, Hikari Mysis, frozen Cyclopeeze and Roe soaked in selcon and vitachem) plus NLS pellets and 1/4 sheet of nori. The frozen is fed 5 times a day between my wife and I and the NLS pellets drop 3 times per day. I have actually had to cut back a bit (Cyclopeeze especially) since I am getting cyano again from overfeeding. I have been through 3 flames in this current tank (4 months old) every one nipped. In my last tank, a 125, I probably tried another half a dozen flames. I kid you not, every single last one of them eventually nipped at SPS. No real damage that I could tell put PE suffered and growth slowed down as well.

I think region collected plays a huge role. I hear of so many people that are successful with flames/SPS yet every one I have tried in the last 3 years has nipped. Funny thing is, every flame I have acquired has also came from Central Pacific and their range is much greater than that.

Or maybe my luck just sucks.

Flames are actually one of my favorite marine fish, I just wish I could keep one longer than 1 month.

 

[DyM]

No doubt Kris what you say are words of wisdom, and my advice to chswkt is to lean towards trusting established behavors (ie, Flames will nip coral). When I ordered them, I honestly didn't know, and just liked how the fish looked. I ordered them through Philip66 and he had a wholesale license that he would open up to folks to order fish at cost through him. We just all pitched in to pay for shipping so anything that Phill ordered, he wasn't paying shipping.... anyhow, that was off topic. Point I'm trying to make is I have no clue what part of the world mine came from. I can say that they appear to be more orange, than red. I've seen some that are really red (thus prob have the name flame ehe?) - Good luck chswkt.

 

[Cake_Boss]

Kris, why don't you feed the sponge food?

 

[fiji4118]

My 2 cents. I agree with Kris. I do have a flame in my tank. It is the second oldest fish I have at over 6 years. It had never nipped at a coral that I had until I added candy apple reds. He loves those! That is the only thing he will touch and I have added them several times in different locations and he scouts them out and eats them the first day they are in the tank. Guessing he ate them in the wild since that is the only thing he touches that I have seen. Wish he would eat some GSP or YCP. Or nuclear holly pallies!

 

[djkms]

Kris, why don't you feed the sponge food?

You mean this?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=8886

I have 2 packs of it. I dont really feed it though because 1, the fish arent really interested in it and 2 its hard to feed because it floats. I might give this stuff a go next time I pick up food though:
http://www.marinedepot.com/Ocean_Nu...ood-Ocean_Nutrition-ON6515-FIFDFZFSCF-vi.html

 

[jahmic]

You mean this?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=8886

I have 2 packs of it. I dont really feed it though because 1, the fish arent really interested in it and 2 its hard to feed because it floats. I might give this stuff a go next time I pick up food though:
http://www.marinedepot.com/Ocean_Nu...ood-Ocean_Nutrition-ON6515-FIFDFZFSCF-vi.html

Kris, I have some of that angel food...or maybe it's the Hikari brand, I can't remember lol. My African Flame back had finally started nipping zoas after ignoring them for a few months; I started giving him that 3x a week and he stopped. Lemme know if you wanna try some out. I have an entire tray and am only feeding a dwarf angel, so I have plenty on hand.

 

[jahmic]

I have that Hikari food and my African Flameback goes crazy for it. He actually had been caught nipping zoas after not touching them for months...I started feeding that food 2-3x a week and he's behaving again. I don't have noticeable issues with mine floating though...but that may be since I shoot it into the tank with a syringe right in front of the mp10.

I did have to remove him from my sps tank though...nothing stopped him from going to town on my milleporas. If you try the flame angel, just be prepared to pull him is the best advice I can give.

 

[subpotentjoe]

I've had two flame's in my 72 gallon for 5+ yrs, never an issue with it nipping on SPS. Even last year I did some major coral remodeling (new reef term) where I took a lot of duplicate colonies out, and a lot of new frags in. I do feed the fish twice a day, so they are fat and happy. I also have two yellow clown gobies, and they too are known to be SPS nippers, not problems there either. However my powder blue tang is really picky on where new SPS and LPS go. He'll aggressively attack the coral if he doesn't like it where I put it... weird. Also, same fish destroys leathers, and sometimes eats zoa's. So there are some personality issues with fish, even when a certain trait may or may not be there.

Haha on a side note my blue Tang hates that Green Monti frag I got from you. I have glued it several times and he takes it to the far side of the tank and drops it everyday. I have had this fish for 3+ years and it has never touched a coral until now. It does not like this one for some reason. Im gonna have to zip tie that sucker down...

 

[Aaron]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments all. To summarize, I think reef safe with caution is appropriate. I'll give her a try simply because I like them so much.