60G cube lighting upgrade

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#1
So im thinking about upgrading my lights on my reef tank. Its a 60g Rimless cube with a fluid sump. I have two ebay 165w full spectrum leds at 100%
i have decent growth out of my sps and good growth out of my zoas, and my nems seem to like it. But curious if i would get better growth out of name brand leds or even metal halides? Is it worth the change? sorry for the poor photos but i would like to hear your guys opinions.

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jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#2
You might want to talk with ThunderTwonk. He has a 60 cube and switched from Radion to MH and seems to be really happy.

Personally, I don't think that even the good LEDs are on the same level as MH. However, I think that you have the right idea with multiple fixtures to help shadowing. If you do upgrade LED, then I would stick with two panels, or even three. The only issue with MH is if you can get the heat out - you will likely need a vented hood or open top.
 

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#3
jda123;334648 said:
You might want to talk with ThunderTwonk. He has a 60 cube and switched from Radion to MH and seems to be really happy.

Personally, I don't think that even the good LEDs are on the same level as MH. However, I think that you have the right idea with multiple fixtures to help shadowing. If you do upgrade LED, then I would stick with two panels, or even three. The only issue with MH is if you can get the heat out - you will likely need a vented hood or open top.
I was almost debating adding a third led panel, but i dont think it will give me the "pop" that metal halides give
 

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#5
Vance;334651 said:
I have a 32" deep cube, love my MH.
So how hot do your metal halides get? Im wanting to build me a custom hood and wondering if i would have to but some kind of heat shielding/foil or would two or three fans work on dissipating the heat
 

Miah2bzy

Nurse Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#6
I had a 65 (I know not a 60 cube) and really liked the response I got with metal halides on it. I did open top and never had issues w the water getting too hot this past summer. Zoas and sps had better colors and bigger polyps within a day of switching from leds.
 

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#7
Whats a good brand for metal halides and for the bulbs? Also what wattage should i go with and what kelvin?
 

clowninaround7474

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#8
I went from a Radion pro to an 8x24w dimmable ATI fixture over my 60g cube and I couldn't be more happy that I made the switch. Better color and insane growth compared to my LEDs. I don't battle heat either which is surprising.
 

Miah2bzy

Nurse Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#9
MTMJR1992;334667 said:
Whats a good brand for metal halides and for the bulbs? Also what wattage should i go with and what kelvin?
Depends on what ballasts ur using and whether ur doing double end or mogul based. But ultimately it's what u like on ur tank as far as how much blue. I had m80 electric ballasts on a 2x150watt double ended fixture so I chose phoenix 14ks due to their par ratings. If I'd had moguls I would have gone w the radions.
 

Walter White

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#10
I have a 60 cube with a custom hood as well and run the 14k pheonix on a lumantek ballast. I've never compared it side by side to an M80 ballast but I suspect the lumantek running in overdrive or hqi setting is as close to an M80 ballast as you can get.

I love the color. IMO it has a more natural sunlight look but just enough blue that corals still pop really nice. The fish colors look amazing under them as well much better than LED again IMO.

As far as heat issues go i think if you have an open top its not even a thing. In the summer I keep my house at 75 or less and I keep the tank temp set at 79. If I close the hood the tank will reach 82 by the end of a 6 hour MH cycle. This is with two 4" PC fans mounted in the back running in a push/pull configuration and another small pc fan blowing directly on the surface on a 30 min on off cycle. In the winter I keep the house at 72 and the tank swings from 79-81 with the hood closed.

Now there is something very much worth mentioning. The hood is shallow and was specifically designed for an led fixture.Its vented but at the time MH was not something I had considered. I was an LED guy from the very beginning. I think if I were to drill two more 4" holes in the top of the canopy and run two pc fans exhausting the heat up and out with the two in the back pulling in fresh air I would probably run 79-80 with no issues.

I wont lie there is going to be some heat with 250 watts in that confined of an area but if you vent the canopy well the trade off is def worth it I think. Here are some pics of my canopy for ref.

In case any one is curious I run the Kessil for sun up sun down effect for 2 hours on each end of the 6 Hour MH cycle. I ramp up then turn off when the halide comes on then turn on right before the halide turns off and ramp back down.





Oh and I should point out im also running the ballast INSIDE the hood which doesnt help.







 

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#11
ThunderTwonk;334701 said:
I have a 60 cube with a custom hood as well and run the 14k pheonix on a lumantek ballast. I've never compared it side by side to an M80 ballast but I suspect the lumantek running in overdrive or hqi setting is as close to an M80 ballast as you can get.

I love the color. IMO it has a more natural sunlight look but just enough blue that corals still pop really nice. The fish colors look amazing under them as well much better than LED again IMO.

As far as heat issues go i think if you have an open top its not even a thing. In the summer I keep my house at 75 or less and I keep the tank temp set at 79. If I close the hood the tank will reach 82 by the end of a 6 hour MH cycle. This is with two 4" PC fans mounted in the back running in a push/pull configuration and another small pc fan blowing directly on the surface on a 30 min on off cycle. In the winter I keep the house at 72 and the tank swings from 79-81 with the hood closed.

Now there is something very much worth mentioning. The hood is shallow and was specifically designed for an led fixture.Its vented but at the time MH was not something I had considered. I was an LED guy from the very beginning. I think if I were to drill two more 4" holes in the top of the canopy and run two pc fans exhausting the heat up and out with the two in the back pulling in fresh air I would probably run 79-80 with no issues.

I wont lie there is going to be some heat with 250 watts in that confined of an area but if you vent the canopy well the trade off is def worth it I think. Here are some pics of my canopy for ref.

In case any one is curious I run the Kessil for sun up sun down effect for 2 hours on each end of the 6 Hour MH cycle. I ramp up then turn off when the halide comes on then turn on right before the halide turns off and ramp back down.





Oh and I should point out im also running the ballast INSIDE the hood which doesnt help.







So what brand of ballast should i get? or does it matter?
 

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#13
Is there anything benefits/differences between the single ended bulbs and the double ended bulbs? besides one has one connector and the other has two.
 

jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#14
Yes, but not of an consequence on this level - either can just be OK or also be great. What is important to know about either is that not all the bulbs are the same and some will look better and have more output with different ballasts - you need to find a combo that works together. Reflectors to spread or penetrate are available for either. I could go on for hours, but here is the quick version:

250W Best of Breed:
Double Ended - 14K Phoenix on M80 HQI Ballast
Single Ended - 20K Radium on M80 MQI Ballast
Single Ended - 10K Hamilton or Ushio on M58 Magnetic Ballast

I guess the first thing to decide is if you want to use a hood or use a pendant with an open top.
 

MTMJR1992

Clown Fish
M.A.S.C Club Member
#15
ThunderTwonk;334701 said:
I have a 60 cube with a custom hood as well and run the 14k pheonix on a lumantek ballast. I've never compared it side by side to an M80 ballast but I suspect the lumantek running in overdrive or hqi setting is as close to an M80 ballast as you can get.

I love the color. IMO it has a more natural sunlight look but just enough blue that corals still pop really nice. The fish colors look amazing under them as well much better than LED again IMO.

As far as heat issues go i think if you have an open top its not even a thing. In the summer I keep my house at 75 or less and I keep the tank temp set at 79. If I close the hood the tank will reach 82 by the end of a 6 hour MH cycle. This is with two 4" PC fans mounted in the back running in a push/pull configuration and another small pc fan blowing directly on the surface on a 30 min on off cycle. In the winter I keep the house at 72 and the tank swings from 79-81 with the hood closed.

Now there is something very much worth mentioning. The hood is shallow and was specifically designed for an led fixture.Its vented but at the time MH was not something I had considered. I was an LED guy from the very beginning. I think if I were to drill two more 4" holes in the top of the canopy and run two pc fans exhausting the heat up and out with the two in the back pulling in fresh air I would probably run 79-80 with no issues.

I wont lie there is going to be some heat with 250 watts in that confined of an area but if you vent the canopy well the trade off is def worth it I think. Here are some pics of my canopy for ref.

In case any one is curious I run the Kessil for sun up sun down effect for 2 hours on each end of the 6 Hour MH cycle. I ramp up then turn off when the halide comes on then turn on right before the halide turns off and ramp back down.





Oh and I should point out im also running the ballast INSIDE the hood which doesnt help.







Have you noticed a difference/spike in your electricity bill going from LED to metal Halides?
 

jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#17
There is no efficiency if you properly light a tank with LED unless you live in a place where a chiller needs to run for hours and hours a day (Colorado is not that place). You will probably save a bit of energy if the heaters get a break. Your 2 panels at 70% are probably the same, or more, at the wall outlet - do you have a kill-a-watt meter where you can measure them? At 100%, you might save some electricity by switching.
 
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