Can I get some Engineering or Experience ideas (help) ?

[daveydoodle]

75 gallon tank, 30 gallon sump. The other day I cracked a baffle in the sump so went looking for a new sump, while I thought I'd fix the baffle and keep the first one as a spare. Turns our trying to find a maximum of 12.5" wide sump is tough. I ordered a custom glass aquarium from glasscages.com which will be here Thursday. I'm going to redo the sump again and makes some changes that I don't like in the first one I made. Here come the questions, and remember I do still fall under the category of "Newbie" so be patient...(how long can I use that?)

Is there a most effective way to design a sump? Currently I have the intake from the DT going through a filter sock and into the same chamber that houses the skimmer. I think this is producing too many fine bubbles as this has been a problem for almost 3 weeks now. My DT is filled with micro bubbles which prevents it from looking clear. Part B of this question is some people swear by using Bio Balls. If I have enough LR in the tank is this necessary, or just additional benefit? I understand why people do this but I have the traditional chamber, baffles, chamber, baffle, chamber, design (see picture).

In the picture, my skimmer is kicking out super fine bubbles. Do I have this adjusted incorrectly? I have it on a PVC platform to ensure that it stays in the recommended water depth. I also have a piece of filter pad between two baffles trying to eliminate some of the fine bubbles. Is there a better idea? In my next sump I am going to make the intake chamber larger because currently my skimmer and filter sock are jammed up against eachother. I also need to make sure there is enough room in the refugium to accomodate my 17" heater.

Is the design I have commonly used and I just need to make some minor adjustments to get mine to perform as I want it to, or does anyone see any obvious design flaws?

 

[cdrewferd]

I'm no expert, but given the size of the fuge, I'd cut it out completely. I would do the return, bubble trap (or at least 1 tall baffle to force the water under), then skimmer, then bubble trap, then return.

 

[daveydoodle]

No fuge at all? The new aquarium is 6" longer than the one I have now, and about 1" shorter. I was thinking I'd put 4" extra on the skimmer side, and maybe 2" on the refugium side. Isn't it still (even though small) a good place to grow pods, increase LR amount, etc? Do most people use hard plumbing on the intake into their sump from their DT? I have 2" internal diameter PVC flex tubing. Also, would any type of addition on the skimmer help, such as a sponge, PVC elbow, etc. where it returns water into the chamber? That's where the bubbles enter into the sump it appears.

 

[dvenson]

If you can add a filter sock to the skimmer which might help reduce the micro bubbles, but if you do add the sock try not to block the output of the skimmer or the collection cup will overflow. This might help fix the problem and keep you from having to build another sump.

 

[fiji4118]

You say there are a lot of micro bubbles in your DT. Can you see the bubbles being pulled into the return pump to go back to the DT? I see that you have the plumbing back to the DT in PVC (maybe that pure water blue pvc?). You might check those fitting to make sure that you are not pulling air from one of them. I know that I at one time had my DT plumbed this way and I had a couple of true union ball valves that were allowing a tiny bit of air to pull in creating the bubbles. I went back over every joint and put some silicone on each and that fixed my problem.

 

[daveydoodle]

Tough to tell, but I do have a filter sock in the back behind the skimmer collection cup. Good idea on double checking my union valves. It certainly can't hurt to eliminate variables. The output from the skimmer seems to be where most of the bubbles are coming from. I need to figure out a way to eliminate what exits here. I thought the baffles/bubble trap would do this but it doesn't seem to be.

 

[fiji4118]

Ok, well here is the thing about micro bubbles in your display tank. Take a look at your chamber that has your return pump. Do you see the micro bubbles from the skimmer chamber actually making it down to the pump? Seems unlikely with your setup and the pics you provided. Is the pump pulling a venturi from the surface to allow air into it? If not then the air is entering somewhere AFTER it leaves the pump. Could be something stuck in the pump so you can check that. Otherwise it is getting in though the plumbing back into the tank. I spent months on my old tank trying to figure out where the bubbles were coming from and finally diagnosed that it was my pvc bleeding air into the system. One other thing to check assuming that your ball valves, elbows and what not are secure. Make sure that you open up all of your valves whenever you turn off your pump. The siphon will pull air back into your returns and if you do not open your valves back up all the way once you turn it back on they can trap air that will display as mircobubbles forever as it takes too long to get that back out. If you are doing a weekly water change and never take that air out it will bubble forever. My .02

Adam

 

[fiji4118]

As a side note, if you are using that blue/clear pure water pvc, the cement that they sell with it holds for ****. You may have to redo the seals with standard cement to get them to stop the air. And seal them all with silicone.

 

[daveydoodle]

Adam, I do shut down the pump when I do water changes without opening the ball valves all the way. I have the two ball valves (DT return and refugium) slightly closed to throttle back some of the return volume, otherwise it's too strong. If I've gotten air in there from a siphon, how can I blow that out?
If it's not that, then it will get solved the other way I hope because I'll need to redo the plumbing for the larger Sump tank.

 

[daveydoodle]

I have an anti-siphon hole in the lock line on the return. That intentionally sucks in air to prevent the lock line from draining the DT because of back siphon on a power failure. Wonder if that's it.

 

[fiji4118]

Just open the valves up for a second when you turn the pump back on. Is the anti-siphon hole above or below the water? If it is above position your lock line so that the hole is just below the water. That way it will siphon a bit but once the water level drops some it will stop. I have just positioned my returns close to the surface but pointing down so that when I cut power to do a water change it drops the water level by an inch or so due to siphon and then stops.

 

[daveydoodle]

Yeah mine are just below the water level. Changed loc lines after the original completion and forgot to drill a hole in the second one. Caught it about 1/2" before the sump flooded.

 

[fiji4118]

Ok good. Just ruling out air sources.

 

[tlsrcs]

So in the first picture the water coming from you third chamber is causing some bubbles in y our second chamber I would shut the water off to rhe third chamber and see if that solves it. The bubbles look like they are getting close enough to the pump that they are getting sucked in and choped up. Let me know if that helps.