Lighting question

[cent36]

Alright guys and gals. I have a lighting question. Here are some pics of the led light I currently have
View attachment 23065 View attachment 23066 View attachment 23067
I really like it and i got it at a good price. It does everything.
I am now however thinking that it is not enough for my 65g, 24 inch deep tank. Everything is thriving but all just blah and brown looking. Would biting a second one and running them in concert provide enough light? Do I truly need something new (want vs need)? If something else is really needed, then what would be the most economical yet aesthetically sound choice?

I don't know much about this so trying to learn. Thanks in advance!

 

[sethsolomon]

If you are strapped for cash I would recommend 2x of these instead of buying another current light. http://www.ebay.com/itm/165W-Dimmab...757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8e50f63d


Current led lights are good for shallower aquariums like 12-16 inches deep. I will let others chime in for recommendations on other LED's.

 

[dracus]

^ I have those ebay ones and they're awesome. Mine's a 28ga cube so not the same situation, but I have them mounted 14" above my tank and running at about 1/3 power and my fish and coral love them.

 

[FinsUp]

I had AI Sol Blues over my 180, and loved them. Great color, decent growth. Mike had MH & T5 lights over his 300 SPS heavy tank and had awesome color & fantastic growth. Our 2 tanks were filtered together, so the water was the same.

What you get now kinda depends on your financial attitude + what your plans are for your tank. You can go with the chinese leds as a temporary measure if you want to spend the minimum up front, knowing that you may well upgrade later, and don't mind taking a loss on them. If it's more important to get the best value for your money, and you can afford to spend a little more, get the best lights available (not necessarily newest model or in style at the moment) for your tank. If you get either LEDs or MH's, and in the near future you decide to "add water" (get a bigger tank), you are not out the money on those lights. Just add another set or two to them to cover the larger tank. If you wait a long time before upgrading to a larger tank, you may not be able to find the same LEDs.

And, in the FWIW column... T5s are great lights, especially when used in combination with LEDs and MHs, and they're not expensive. It'd be a bit much to supplement MHs with T5s over a 65, however. That's more for the larger tanks.

I've rambled enough, and I'm sure others who are smarter than me will chime in.

 

[lpsouth1978@msn.com]

I hate to say it, but that light you have is virtually worthless for your corals. There are 144 LED's on it but it is only 36W. That means each LED is is running at only 0.25W each. What this means for you is that even though the light may seem bright to your eyes, it is not getting any penetration into the water (primarily PAR). Your corals will really not benefit from that light, will not grow, will not have great color.

I agree that you need a different light for your tank. The light that sethsolomon posted a link to seems like a decent light for the price. It is a chinese light, and may need to be upgraded later, but would do a good job in a pinch. Otherwise you could look into the newer AI's, like the Vega, or Hydra. there are a lot of choices out there, just be sure they use 3W LED's so you have the penetration you need.

Rapid LED also has a fixture that looks pretty good. It uses all Cree LED's.
http://www.rapidled.com/dimmable-onyx-by-rapid-led/

Add a Storm controller and Onyx to storm cable and you have a controllable, full spectrum light for less than $400. If you need more lights just get an Onyx to Onyx communication cable and control them all simultaneously with your storm controller.

 

[zombie]

Rapid LED also has a fixture that looks pretty good. It uses all Cree LED's.
http://www.rapidled.com/dimmable-onyx-by-rapid-led/

I have this light and it was a vast improvement over the t5s that it replaced. The penetration is great. I have sps that are about 18" from the light and still grow very well.

 

[edekgb]

I have had current leds also and like all of the features for the price and although not very powerful they can be ok for softies and LPS corals - the corals that you have that require a lot of light can just be moved up higher in the tank and closer to the light.

 

[Rigo07]

I the same light as he does I want to get a better light.. EcoTech Marine Radion XR30w pro or hydra 52 witch one??

 

[lpsouth1978@msn.com]

I the same light as he does I want to get a better light.. EcoTech Marine Radion XR30w pro or hydra 52 witch one??

I don't have any hands on experience with either of those lights, but I personally lie the Hydra 52. I was looking at both of these and had decided that if I was getting anything it would be the Hydra 52. Now I am considering getting the RapidLED Onyx fixtures for my 300G. They are good lights and half the cost.

 

[Dr.DiSilicate]

best bang for the buck is probably t5. as much as I want led"s to be great they just aren't. Halides are great too but your tank is of a size that they would heat it up. without spending a ton on led you are still going to want something else.

 

[zombie]

Best bang for you buck UPFRONT. Bulb replacements and higher energy use get you real quick with T5 considering you need to spend 200-300 upfront for a fixture, plus 90 every 6-12 mos for new bulbs, plus an extra 55 a year in electricity. That extra 145-235 a year pays back the LED cost pretty quick when you can get hella good fixtures for 600-800 a pair that outshine the t5 growth (at least mine were a vast improvement).

 

[lpsouth1978@msn.com]

best bang for the buck is probably t5. as much as I want led"s to be great they just aren't. Halides are great too but your tank is of a size that they would heat it up. without spending a ton on led you are still going to want something else.

Not to start a debate, but LED is a GREAT option if you can afford it. I have personally seen LED (on my tank) grow and color SPS better than a Metal Halide. I had a 400 watt halide over the tank and had decent growth. Changed to a DIY LED light with 72 LEDS which included cool white, neutral white, blue, royal blue, red green, and UV LED's. The sps in the tank TOOK OFF under the LED's.

Unlike most of the LED systems that were available at the time, I had full spectrum over my corals and they loved it. I still think that most commercial fixtures are lacking in some aspect, but they are making strides. Using inexpensive 1W LED's , or using only white and Blue LED's simply is not enough. To get good growth and color from SPS, high quality LED's must be used, regardless of whether they are in a commercial fixture or a DIY setup.

Halide and T5 are both good options and are tried and true, but they too have their drawbacks. IMO there isn't any one perfect light source for reef tanks. I think the best is to combine lighting and use a combo of Halide and LED, T5 and LED, T5 and Halide, etc.

 

[ayaws]

I hear you but the LEDs I had (Hydras) did not work well for my 30" deep tank. I ended up switching back to halides because I put more of a priority on growth and appearance than energy use.

If you're calculating energy use into your budget for lighting, there are far better options than halides of course. My 2X 400W burn roughly 430W each through the ballasts which is roughly 7.8A. The chiller I run burns about 5.5A when it's running which it runs for approximately 120 minutes per day (3X 40min runs).

So my calculation: 860W for 10h/day (860W = .86kw. .86kw*.12c/kwh) = .10c/hr for the lights alone. (Roughly $1/day for lighting) + (550w = .55KW. .55*.12c/kwh) = .06c/hr for chiller.) I'm spending $1.12 per day for lighting and chilling power alone. Roughly $409/year for energy. That's before you add in the $160/year for bulbs for halides and it gets pretty expensive quickly. You pretty easily get your ROI on LED lighting within the first two years. Even if you go with the Radion XR30W Pros at ~$600 each.

My acquisition cost of the halides (fixture+bulbs+ballasts+LED supplements) was $840.

So Acquisition(Energy+consumables*#years) gets LED-attractive quickly.
Out of my pocket: 840((409+140)*2) = $1938 for the first two years of lighting metal halide at my house or $80.75/month.

Now -- if you're running LEDs at roughly 100W/fixture or 200W hourly, the return is even faster: 10 hours per day at $.02/hour = 20c/day. PROBABLY don't need a chiller.

Annual cost of $73/year for energy + $0 for consumables (bulbs.)

2 fixtures at $600/fixture = 1200

Run the same calculation $1200+(73*2) = $1346. ($57/month)

Halide over two years costs almost 2X the price of LED. Gotta think about more than the acquisition cost of the fixtures. ;-)

*cost per kwh is $.12 which I think is about what xcel charges at some random period of time I found. Substitute .12 for the amount you're paying to work your own numbers.

Can you tell I'm in sales??

 

[lpsouth1978@msn.com]

Lighting a 30" deep tank is difficult with LED's, even with Halides you need a 400W to do the job. The only chance you have with LED's is to use a VERY narrow lens, like 40 degree, but then you are faced with spotlighting of colors and give up the nice blend. I think the bigger problem for you was the depth of the tank in combination with the LED's. If I remember correctly, the Hydras do not come with 40 degree lenses and I'm not sure you would want them even if they did.

LED's are not the answer for every tank or situation. We all need to evaluate our setups and decide what will work for us and our tanks. I have been going back and forth with this 300G build. I started looking at LED, then decided Halide/T5, now I am looking at LED again. My tank is 27" tall, so it is kind of in that transition zone, where 250W halides might do the trick, but you may need 400W. 60 degree lenses should work, but 40 might be better. I have to evaluate my system and make a decision that works best for me. Again, no perfect bulb for a reef tank.

 

[ayaws]

Lighting a 30" deep tank is difficult with LED's, even with Halides you need a 400W to do the job. The only chance you have with LED's is to use a VERY narrow lens, like 40 degree, but then you are faced with spotlighting of colors and give up the nice blend. I think the bigger problem for you was the depth of the tank in combination with the LED's. If I remember correctly, the Hydras do not come with 40 degree lenses and I'm not sure you would want them even if they did.

LED's are not the answer for every tank or situation. We all need to evaluate our setups and decide what will work for us and our tanks. I have been going back and forth with this 300G build. I started looking at LED, then decided Halide/T5, now I am looking at LED again. My tank is 27" tall, so it is kind of in that transition zone, where 250W halides might do the trick, but you may need 400W. 60 degree lenses should work, but 40 might be better. I have to evaluate my system and make a decision that works best for me. Again, no perfect bulb for a reef tank.

I absolutely agree -- very interested in what you're building here and am actively watching!

 

[jda123]

You should go and look at a bunch of tanks and take in what people say with the trifecta of their words, posts and their actions. I might suggest that you listen to the Dr. on this one... he has the breadth and depth of knowledge to know what he is talking about.

FWIW - 150W HQI on that tank with either 14K Phoenix or 20K Radium.

 

[lpsouth1978@msn.com]

You should go and look at a bunch of tanks and take in what people say with the trifecta of their words, posts and their actions. I might suggest that you listen to the Dr. on this one... he has the breadth and depth of knowledge to know what he is talking about.

FWIW - 150W HQI on that tank with either 14K Phoenix or 20K Radium.

No disrespect, but a failure by one reefkeeper to successfully keep corals under LED's, does not make that person an expert. As I said, I personally have had great success using LED's.

Let's face it, this is a debate that is going on all over the web. It has been going on for years and will probably continue for years to come. Many reefkeepers have seen great success with LED's, some not so much. Others simply talk crap about LED's without ever having tried them.

Here is a picture of my Solana (before selling it) after almost a year under my DIY LED fixture. I tried to find a before picture, but couldn't find one.

 

[ayaws]

That's phenomenal! For what it's worth, the hydras were great on my standard 90.

 

[Dr.DiSilicate]

wow, just throw me under the buss. i have tried led as well as t5 and halides. Also, vho and lc's. Not sure if you are old enough to have heard of the pc or vho. I am just suggesting that t 5 are very effective and economical lighting for a medium sized tank without taking the risk of led's.

 

[Dr.DiSilicate]

and suggesting a failure sue to my opinion is a bit presumptuous don't you think?