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Opinion: Jeabo Pumps Bad of America

Discussion in 'General Reefkeeping Discussion' started by jda123, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. jda123

    jda123 Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    My tanks are overflowing with some cool stuff that I am probably going to start giving away. I will have condition that anybody who takes them not have any Jeabo pumps or other equipment, so I wanted to take this opportunity to explain why so that everybody knows why I am a dooooche instead of just guessing as to why.

    Jeabo steals American, EU and other countries Intellectual Property (IP, i.e. patents) and then copies them to sell at a discount. For me, and many others, this is the greatest threat to American businesses and businessmen in the world today. Innovation dies - why would anybody create new cool stuff just to have it stolen and sold for cheaper from China to an American Public that mostly does not know, but some that do not care? The worst case is that American companies have to lay off people with declining sales - there is usually enough sales for a smaller crew to stay aboard, but this is a hard explanation to the ones who lose their jobs. Some companies have to close completely. There will become a day when everybody has had this happen to them or is very close to somebody who has - only then will there be outrage. There is no way for an American company to stop this - The Donald has said that "china is killing us on trade" and while he is mostly coming from a place of ignorance and hyperbole in his speeches, he is right on accident and IP theft from China is a BIG deal. This does not stop at manufacturing - software IP theft from China is a huge issue that anybody who is in tech could probably write paragraphs about.

    Everybody who has purchased a Jeabo pump has contributed in some very, very minuscule way to the making the American economy worse - probably not on purpose. I cannot support this company and feel the need to speak out about what they do in hopes of maybe even a few others becoming aware and choosing another product.

    Before anybody starts with "competition is good" or "Honda made GM/Ford better," I want to point out that theft is not competition and other countries like Japan, Korea Europe and many other actually do their own R&D, can be sued for patent violations and have offices in US that companies can take issue with. Honda, Toyota are real global competition that is good - this is not. These arguments are all false equivalencies. I would rather people just say that they do not care about any of this and are buying the cheap stuff anyway.

    "But they are so cheap, what can I do?" I have thought about this... For flow pumps, etither Maxspect or EcoDrift. Maxspect does not steal IP that I know of and designs and makes their own products - they had their Gyre stolen as Jeabo and renamed as Jecod to hopefully confuse a few more people.. AquaMedic has pumps in the same price range as the Jeabo stuff and has US offices in Loveland - support this local company. Any of these companies are at least competing on a global level and not stealing.
     
  2. Kluker589

    Kluker589 Copepod

    Good write up. I completely agree and try to only buy American made products as much as possible. Jeabo lures people in with low prices but it lacks in reliability and performance. Buy the highest quality and American made products will be more reliable and work better than cheap, china made replicas.
     
  3. asn-naso

    asn-naso Tuna M.A.S.C Club Member

    I personally don't understand why companies like Apple have most of their products manufactured in China. This makes it easier for their IP to be compromised

    Personally, I don't have any Jeabo products in my tank. I have 2 MP40's for flow, BRS dosing pumps, and use a MAG for my return.
     
  4. DJBM3

    DJBM3 Amphipod

    It is like this in the RC world as well. All though, I do use some of the cheap electronics as it is much more tolerable to crash and burn with experimental aircraft with cheap components but once I have things flying I do switch to the real product components.
    I find the cheap electronics as well as the Jeabo products to be cheaply made and unreliable.
    At times I have picked up second hand knockoffs to get by but I typically splurge later down the road to get the real deal.
    My current and new tank all have quality products from reputable companies and it shows. Near 0 failures with these products.
    Motion RC is my go to spot for my RC jets, and once again solid products from a US company.
     
  5. JuanGutz

    JuanGutz Tuna M.A.S.C Club Member

    Great write up and I agree. Won't lie I've bought their products but they all break. American made only now but never thought of it in this sense
     
  6. jda123

    jda123 Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    I have no issue with global manufacturing. It is the theft and un-level playing field that bothers me. Is somebody wants to buy a German, Polish or Chinese made pump from a real company that respects the fundamentals of capitalism, then I will show no ire. I love to buy things made in American, but that is not always possible.

    I also think that The Velvet Underground got some undue hate in the 60s because they were American, not British, and are every bit as good as The Beatles and The Stones.
     
  7. timnem70

    timnem70 Amphipod

    In another forum I was ripped for speaking my mind about Black boxes and how people purchase stuff for the reef. It's akin to stopping at a gas station that sells their gas for 10 cents more a gallon while the guys across the street has discount but folks don't go because they are not traveling in that dorectuon and don't wanna make a U turn. Why is Jaebo different. And yes it was this club that lambasted me for talking crap about black boxes instead of Say.. Kessil. What's the diff.?

    Galaxy S7 Edge
     
    Tango likes this.
  8. timnem70

    timnem70 Amphipod

    Good article though man


    Galaxy S7 Edge
     
  9. Dr.DiSilicate

    Dr.DiSilicate Kraken M.A.S.C Club Member

    Dude, I've always liked ya and totally agree with ya. Additionally, no cheep ways out in this hobby. It's really pay me now or pay me later. I shop around and get deals on good quality used equipment being sold by rich people who trade up with all the new trends. I also take care of what I have and often trade with local fish stores. I hope the stores have always come out ahead as well. Good write up... thanks for explaining why you are a douche. Lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    static reef likes this.
  10. static reef

    static reef SCMAS Board Members S.C.M.A.S BOD

    "I shop around and get deals on good quality used equipment being sold by rich people who trade up with all the new trends".

    "Good write up... thanks for explaining why you are a douche".

    These are two of my favorite quotes since I joined the forums. Great thread. Dig this conversation.
     
    Miah2bzy likes this.
  11. ReefCheif

    ReefCheif Marlin M.A.S.C Club Member

    I dont have jebaos or any of their products but I also dobt use alot of american made products. The Germans and Italians have cornered the industry for aquarium equipment as far as Im concerned.
     
    timnem70 likes this.
  12. Balz3352

    Balz3352 Marlin M.A.S.C Club Member

    Jdas thing is not about American made its about patent infringement and intellectual property. My understanding is that he's fine with any company that goes through the regulations and standards of every other company and that the products do not steal from competitors.
     
    Miah2bzy and timnem70 like this.
  13. Miah2bzy

    Miah2bzy Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    Good writeup. Thanks for posting!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Punjab

    Punjab Amphipod

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is that buying a Jebao pump doesn't hurt the companies they copy or the "American economy" in a negative way by even a single penny. It hurts egos. Maxspect (of which I own numerous products) is on cloud 9 because they made something new and innovative. Jebao is taking full advantage of a well known loophole in our patent system regarding that innovation while Maxspect's patent pends approval. The fact of the matter is that not even Maxspect invented something new. They took existing patents of other people's hard thought IP and designed it into a new package we hadn't seen before. Maxspect did not invent pumps or impellers or drivers that didn't already exist.

    Because my money is mine and mine alone I get to spend it on whoever and whatever I want. If that drives Maxspect or Hydor or Aqua Medic out of business (it never will) then that falls directly on those companies for trying to increase their sales margins on a virtually identical product offered elsewhere at a reduced rate. "But they don't make that much per unit!" "Think about their work force and manufacturing costs here in the states!" "Little Timmy needs a blood transfusion!" "You're part of the problem!" Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want my hard earned money? Then give me a real reason why your product is better than theirs. Because these guys thought of it first is not that reason.

    As an aside, I own a Maxspect Gyre and it's truly a fantastic pump. It's expensive but it is made very well and the customer service at Maxspect and CoralVue is on par with excellent. I've run Jebao RW pumps before and they really do suck. They get the job done but seemed to always break down quickly. I've got Hydor Koralia's that are 10+ years old and still run like a champ. So my point is that just because "we thought of it first" is your argument for insisting I spend more money here or there makes for an incredibly useless fight. In the U.S. we live on the idea of capitalism and Jebao is exploiting that very concept. It takes years to get a patent approved and in the mean time there is not a single damn thing that anyone can do to stop them. After approval, sure, you can have their entire line banned from the U.S. market but by then Jebao made their money. And it's theirs to keep. Money, I might add, that those other companies were never going to earn because the people who bought the cheap version couldn't afford the original brand-name version in the first place.
     
  15. timnem70

    timnem70 Amphipod

    Hahaha. I only use Aquamedic for my wave action. The Ecodrift series is incredibly poweful and a quarter of the price of an MP 40. That and Kessil is my choice along with an ADHI sump and Eheim return pump I have had zero issues in the 4th year of the current tanks operation.
    Ill take anything you got
    I need a stand for my 60 cube. I could use a return pump for the same. Let me know what I can take off your hands. Once I have that stand i will be up and running the cube

    Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
     
  16. jda123

    jda123 Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    Opinions are great.

    You are either misrepresenting or are uninformed about how patent-stealing Chinese companies do business. They are not taking advantage of any loophole in any American or EU system - they have no presence outside of China. They lie about shipping from EU, American or Australian warehouses. There is nobody in the US to take up any complaints with. These companies rely on ignorance and/or indifference to operate by the people who purchase their products. The excuses that you are making for them are not even close to accurate.

    I have no venom for Maxspect, Hydor or any of the other Chinese companies who abide by free-trade agreements. Globalization is good on a level playing field and will make all products better. The un-level playing field will cost nearly everybody in the US, or somebody that they are really close to, a job, raise or other benefit in the next ten years, if it has not already. I do not wish this on anybody, but when it does you can bet that somebody, somewhere will be thinking that the companies only have themselves to blame, but it will hurt more now that it happened to you or your family.

    I love how most folks are IP law experts. Have heard everything from "Coca Cola has patent" or "You cannot patent a car" with false equivalencies that are not true... FWIW, Coca Cola would never get a patent because they would have to share their recipe for all to see and potentially steal... they just keep it secret like Colonel Sanders does. Having been though quite a battle with IP, nearly all of the suits need to be handled civilly in IP court and law enforcement will only uphold a judgement after the fact (kind of) - the cowards from Jeabo have nobody here to take issue with and never will. Although you cannot patent a pump, you can patent the way that it moves water or the design... just look on the side of a Tunze box to see what patents they have.
     
    SynDen likes this.
  17. timnem70

    timnem70 Amphipod

    This is highly accurate and informative for those that do not understand patent law and or stealing ideas from reputable compnies bu communists who claim to hate exactly the games they delve in to.
    Thanks jda

    Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
     
  18. zombie

    zombie Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    I'm wondering where you are letting patent infringement from? Jebao has a bad habit of making products look like big American names and name them similar but the design itself would never hold up in a patent infringement case. Controller, impeller design, motor type, etc. are all quite different and seem to be a mix of design ideas from the best selling equipment with simplified controls and cheaper materials. You aren't paying less for a stolen design, you're paying less for a lower quality product.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
  19. jda123

    jda123 Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    Are you an IP lawyer? Read my post from two above - unless you have been through an IP issue and lawsuit, you know nothing... but everybody is an expert on IP. I wish this on nobody, and my life would be significantly easier, if I never went through this, but in order to defend your patent you basically have to become and IP expert on the process, traveling to North Texas and prior cases. It sucks. This is clear IP theft... but we will never know how a judge would respond since nobody can file suit. BTW - "design ideas from best selling equipment" is exactly what an IP judge will see as infringement - nobody has a patent on a whole flow pump, but the designs and nuances inside of it. Next time that you go to MACNA, ask the different manufacturers if they would bring a case if they could. What would likely happen if this company had any integrity is that they would pay a fee and license the designs, usually on a per-unit basis - the companies that have the designs would gladly take the fee for their current models and innovate to create even better stuff. The cycle would then continue. Instead of innovating, the real innovators are using more cash than they would like to stay in business.

    Thanks for making excuses for them. Is there any excuse that you can make that their Gyre is not a direct rip off of the Maxspect? You know that they are bad when they will rip off a well respect Chinese company that respects free-trade agreements... consuming their own. I guess that this should not surprise me since folks who defend and make excuses for them and discredit any notion of IP theft are just consuming their fellow American (and EU) innovators and folks with the stones to start a small business).
     
  20. zombie

    zombie Barracuda M.A.S.C Club Member

    Havent even seen their gyre attempt. But I use the rw4 in my tank which is most definately a unique design and when it's a case of $700 for 2 apex controllable pumps vs $100, kinda hard to pass up.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     

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