Ich

[cdrewferd]

So I know that my tank has ich. I was wondering if it will die off, even with fish in the tank? My melararus and goby are the only fish left. Don't know if I want to go through the process of Hypo for 2 fish. Would almost rather just sell them to a LFS so try can treat them and let my tank go fish less for a couple months.


Drew

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[reefmaster719]

Re: Ich

No. Fish keep it alive. Take the fish out and yes it will die off.

 

[Campbell]

Ich

I've seen a similar instance with ich killing off everything but a yellow tang and a black saddleback clown... He used a reefsafe ich killer from seascape(lfs) and the fish are still alive with no signs of ich... This was over a month ago... Can't remember what it's called but seemed to work. I would have to find out tomorrow and let you know if you'd like to try something like that... He also fed heavy garlic to boost immune systems and fed very regularly to reduce as much stress as possible

 

[cdrewferd]

Ich

I have some of that reef safe stuff, but wasn't sure how to tell if it works as the 2 fish in the tank show no signs of ich.


Drew

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[Campbell]

Ich

Yeah same with the tank I'm talking about... He let it go for a month or so and tried two chromis to see what happened and so far nothing Wrong with them at all... And the tang and clown are still doing well... He also kept his white lights off and only ran blues for about 3 weeks.. Don't know if that helped anything but stress levels of the fish but his tank seems to have beaten it so far... Though I still wouldn't go try n put a hippo tang or anything in it yet...

 

[master NooB]

Are all the tangs really susceptible to ich or just the hippo tangs? My hippo has ich and I have been battling that since I got him

 

[cdrewferd]

Ich

It's most tangs. There are a few that have a better immune system to fight it off, but it's mainly a tang thing.


Drew

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[280g-reefman]

I would go fishless. Have been running hypo for almost 2 months now and its been ok but for 2 fish its not worth the hassle imo.

 

[cdrewferd]

Ich

That's what I'm thinking. At the same time, how do I get this dang goby out? He and his pistol shrimp have taken home under one of the main base rocks. Don't really want to tear apart my rocks. Any other ideas to get him out? Also, how would I find where my wrasse sleeps?


Drew

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[jahmic]

You'll just have to be content with watching the tank right around lights out to figure out where your wrasse sleeps. If you can get some sort of moonlights over the tank so that you can still see in there when the main lights go out, you should be able to figure out where he buries himself. My yellow coris goes to sleep at the same time every night in the same spot. If you're lucky, on the first attempt you should at least see a "puff" of sand in the general area where he hides himself...then just keep an eye on that area for the next couple nights. I do know that my yellow coris is a little hesitant to hide himself if my face is pressed up against the glass...hanging out a few ft from the tank with the ambient lights in the room turned off will probably help.

 

[cdrewferd]

Ich

Well there's a small problem with that. He isn't out all day. He comes out for a few hours, then goes back in. All while the main lights are on. Hmm. He may take a bit more to catch.


Drew

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[jahmic]

Well there's a small problem with that. He isn't out all day. He comes out for a few hours, then goes back in. All while the main lights are on. Hmm. He may take a bit more to catch.


Drew

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Yea, if that's the case it complicates things. I'd just use a bottle trap, bait it, and leave it in the tank. Might take a few days to catch him, but if you leave it somewhere that he swims around often and don't disturb it, chances are he'll get used to it and venture in.

 

[280g-reefman]

That's what I'm thinking. At the same time, how do I get this dang goby out? He and his pistol shrimp have taken home under one of the main base rocks. Don't really want to tear apart my rocks. Any other ideas to get him out? Also, how would I find where my wrasse sleeps?


Drew

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12 pack and a lot of patience should do it.

 

[daverf]

Turn on light during night and be ready to goose them out of their hiding place (with a piece of zip line sticking off a feeding stick etc). theyll be dazed and very easy to catch if you have nets in both hands ready. best to cut all ambient light in the room for at least an hour before you do it, and als good to wait at least a few hours after lights go out. this has worked like a charm for me on catching super fast fish without tearing down my tank any more. if i am trying this and dont atch them within 1 minute, i turn lights off and wait 10 minutes and retry.

maybe it isnt ich if the fish looked fine the night before dying, so the hypo may not help anything. fallow sounds like the bestbet

 

[cdrewferd]

Ok, so I have a question.

If Ich is always in a tank, won't it be very possible to just bring it back in even after going fishless for a couple months? Should I just feed some garlic or stuff to help boost the fishies immune systems and go about my day? I'm not going to be able to QT every fish that comes into the tank. It's been hard enough to get the wife to accept this tank, let alone another one.

What do you guys think?

 

[daverf]

From my research...which, as you know, is linked to my own issues...

I've read countless accounts of display tank Ich eradication. Some people try fallow and/or hypo to the gold standard (refractometer, ATO, 2-3 months, QT everything 100%) and still Ich survives. And they swear that they are on top of good tank husbandry (RO/DI, excellent parms, low stocking, etc). Obviously no one can really tell if they've done everything correctly, but based on this I think the answer to your first question is Yes. Environmental stressors that could occur in the future could probably restart the infestation (water quality, overstocking, etc). For good examples of hypo tank failure, check out these WWM FAQs: http://65.36.157.188/HypoFailureF.htm

Also, there are thousands of marine life parasites, of which Ich is by far the most common in aquariums but still only a single species, so it is possible that other parasite species that cause identical symptoms are at play (in other words, many people who believe they are dealing with Ich may be dealing with something different/rare).

DyM had a link to an Ich article that had the best research/explanation I've ever found. In it, I believe it states that after 12 months of no new additions, Ich appears to be neutralized due to its inability to sustain its continued population growth in a closed system (with a limited number of hosts whose immunity continues increasing). So the point of this is, hopefully you fight it (with proper tools) for a year and then never again.

Effectiveness of garlic for fish immunity is purely based on anecdotes, no science behind it.

In my opinion, display tank hypo (plus fallow if you can do that) is the way to go. It gives you a tool that has a chance of working in the future, if you see Ich return. Like my display tank hypo thread relates, it has its own (possibly huge) risks and you have to be ready for the impact of the first drop (LR die off etc). And, I think you need to get fish that have been QTd to screen out anything else that could wreak irreversible havoc on your tank. If you're not willing to do display tank hypo, pretty much every other disease must be avoided via QT. If you are willing to, only flukes/worms and velvet are not treated by hypo.

Also I think that if you aren't willing to do display tank hypo, you really should have your own QT. Temporary (or use the sump, etc). You could break down and remove at the end. If eevrything dies again in the future, probably worse (in my house, this would be hobby game over for the spouse ).

 

[SquidBreath]

I would like to jump on board here. I got a new goby and didn't QT. The goby magically vanished...assumed dead...but now my clowns have ich :-(
It not effecting the McClosker's Wrass or the cardinals yet. I now have my QT tank up and running again but it's already got a shrimp and a goby it.
I could pull the clowns over and medicate, but what meds kill ich but not shrimp?

Any info much appreciated.
Thanks
dave

 

[daverf]

hey Dave, sorry to hear that, definitely no fun and you're not alone, lots of threads running on this issue now so I would do some forum searches. Is this just a few spots, or are they covered in spots?

Kordon Ich products - they are marketed as reef safe, some have had good experiences with them on the forum, although I don't know if that is limited to situations where there has been Ich spotting but no display tank deaths. i'll let them chime in if they want (or search "Kordon" on MASC).

Consensus amongst hobby experts is that copper or hyposalinity are the only proven Ich fighting paths. Neither are reef safe.

I would Google "clownfish disease wetwebmedia" and look at the pictures there, and otherwise do as much research as you can to get positive confirmation that you are dealing with Ich. It could be another issue that looks similar. Different pathogens have different treatment paths.

If they are covered in spots and the goby is really dead, no doubt your display tank is infested. Only proven reef safe path for this situation is to run it fallow.