Alk will not go up.

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#1
I recently set up my dosing pumps for calcium and alkalinity and everything but my alk will not stabilize. My calcium is 500+ and mag is at 1300 my alkalinity keeps dropping no matter how much I dose. I tested a week ago and it was 9.5 so I bumped my dosing up. I tested last night and it is now 6.4dkh. I have my calcium pump set to be on for 1 minute so it doses 1.1 ml a day and my calcium stays put at around 500. My alk pump is set to about 15 minutes so it's dosing 16.5 ml a day. I have checked heaters and pumps and there is no precipitation. I'm lost help me out here.
 

Blindrage

Anthias
M.A.S.C Club Member
#3
Alk and CA are tied together. If you CA test is not reporting correctly and your CA is actually going higher then that would explain why your Alk is dropping.

Are you getting any precipitate in the tank? Is your sand binding?
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#5
Bajamike;292478 said:
If you want bring some water buy and I can test it for you
Yeah I'm gonna have ro do that. I'm testing with a brand new red sea kit so Id hope it isn't bad but you never know. I'll let you know when I can swing by.
 

Andrew_bram

Tiger Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#6
J.guokas;292483 said:
Yeah I'm gonna have ro do that. I'm testing with a brand new red sea kit so Id hope it isn't bad but you never know. I'll let you know when I can swing by.
I also have Red Sea test kits and API and I must say the Red Sea seems overly complicated. I had to retest a number of times to eliminate errors
 

asn-naso

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#7
How big is the tank? You might want to dose longer on the alk

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#8
Andrew_bram;292485 said:
I also have Red Sea test kits and API and I must say the Red Sea seems overly complicated. I had to retest a number of times to eliminate errors
The red sea tests are fairly complicated but Im pretty sure I have it down. I have a salifert alk kit that I have gotten the same numbers.
 

Jeremiah

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#10
Have you double checked the dosing pump??? Maybe you have a kink in the line or something, and it turns on for 15 minutes, but not getting the expected dose???

Just tossing out ideas

J.guokas;292473 said:
I recently set up my dosing pumps for calcium and alkalinity and everything but my alk will not stabilize. My calcium is 500+ and mag is at 1300 my alkalinity keeps dropping no matter how much I dose. I tested a week ago and it was 9.5 so I bumped my dosing up. I tested last night and it is now 6.4dkh. I have my calcium pump set to be on for 1 minute so it doses 1.1 ml a day and my calcium stays put at around 500. My alk pump is set to about 15 minutes so it's dosing 16.5 ml a day. I have checked heaters and pumps and there is no precipitation. I'm lost help me out here.
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#11
Jeremiah;292507 said:
Have you double checked the dosing pump??? Maybe you have a kink in the line or something, and it turns on for 15 minutes, but not getting the expected dose???

Just tossing out ideas
Lines are kink free. I've watched the pump when it turns on and it's working with no hiccups.
 

djkms

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#13
IMO 16.5ml per day is not much. In your 30 gallon system (not including sump and rock displacement) that only equates to .75dKH consumption per day. Calcium and alkalinity consumption are balanced at 2.8dKH to 20ppm CA. So in your scenario your system is only consuming 5.355 CA (if your system was perfectly balanced and 16.5ml was your end point for alk). Problem is, virtually no ones system is perfectly balanced. The biggest culprit of causing the imbalance is CO2, this is especially evident during the winter since we close all our windows and virtually no fresh air is allowed into the system. Typically alkalinity consumption will exceed CA consumption for most aquaria. Just to give you an example, my system consumes 160-170ml per day CA and 210ml alkalinity per day.

a 5.355 consumption of CA will be hard to see on our hobbyist test kits unless a week or 2 goes by between testing. At this point I would stop dosing CA until you can get the number below 480, 450 or below would be ideal though.

Here is what I would do if I were in your shoes. Turn off the CA doser until the CA was around 450. Keep the Alk doser on at 16.5ml per day and manually add buffer at a rate of .5dKH per day (use the calculator linked below to get this amount) until my alk was at 8.5. Once the dKH is 8.5 write down the time and turn off all dosing pumps. Test the alkalinity and write down the figure. Exactly 24 hours later test again and that will be your rate of consumption. Use the dosing calculator and set your dosing pump accordingly. Then test every 2-3 days and adjust accordingly. Chances are it will shift up or down a bit and if you test daily to adjust your pump the noise from the test kit could have you chasing numbers for a while.

Hope this all makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jda123

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#14
High calcium will drive low alk, and vice versa. They need to be in balance with each other... if one gets too far out of whack, the other will go the other way. If you get your calcium back to a NSW level (around 400 maybe), then the alk should come up.

That being said, check your test kits.
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#15
Blindrage;292477 said:
Alk and CA are tied together. If you CA test is not reporting correctly and your CA is actually going higher then that would explain why your Alk is dropping.

Are you getting any precipitate in the tank? Is your sand binding?
No precipitate and the sand is not binding at all.
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#17
One of my buddies uses aquavitro balance in his tank and has great success with it keeping his levels stable. Anyone here have any input into this product?
 

J.guokas

Cleaner Shrimp
M.A.S.C Club Member
#18
djkms;292511 said:
IMO 16.5ml per day is not much. In your 30 gallon system (not including sump and rock displacement) that only equates to .75dKH consumption per day. Calcium and alkalinity consumption are balanced at 2.8dKH to 20ppm CA. So in your scenario your system is only consuming 5.355 CA (if your system was perfectly balanced and 16.5ml was your end point for alk). Problem is, virtually no ones system is perfectly balanced. The biggest culprit of causing the imbalance is CO2, this is especially evident during the winter since we close all our windows and virtually no fresh air is allowed into the system. Typically alkalinity consumption will exceed CA consumption for most aquaria. Just to give you an example, my system consumes 160-170ml per day CA and 210ml alkalinity per day.

a 5.355 consumption of CA will be hard to see on our hobbyist test kits unless a week or 2 goes by between testing. At this point I would stop dosing CA until you can get the number below 480, 450 or below would be ideal though.

Here is what I would do if I was in your shoes. Turn of the CA doser until the CA was around 450. Keep the Alk doser on at 16.5ml per day and manually add buffer at a rate of .5dKH per day (use the calculator linked below to get this amount) until my alk was at 8.5. Once the dKH is 8.5 write down the time and turn off all dosing pumps. Test the alkalinity and write down the figure. Exactly 24 hours later test again and that will be your rate of consumption. Use the dosing calculator and set your dosing pump accordingly. Then test every 2-3 days and adjust accordingly. Chances are it will shift up or down a bit and if you test daily to adjust your pump the noise from the test kit could have you chasing numbers for a while.

Hope this all makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.
I will take my cal pump off line tonight when I get home. I will start testing every night around the same time and see how that goes. Thanks for the recommendation.
 

djkms

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#19
jda123;292512 said:
High calcium will drive low alk, and vice versa. They need to be in balance with each other... if one gets too far out of whack, the other will go the other way. If you get your calcium back to a NSW level (around 400 maybe), then the alk should come up.

That being said, check your test kits.
+1

And to clarify what I said previously. The balance I am talking about is the consumption balance, not the ionic balance which Doug is referring to.
 

ReefCheif

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
Platinum Sponsor
#20
J.guokas;292515 said:
One of my buddies uses aquavitro balance in his tank and has great success with it keeping his levels stable. Anyone here have any input into this product?
I use it, and I like it!
 
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