All right, about to drink the kalkwasser kool aid. Some basic questions

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andyrm66

Butterfly Fish
#21
Wicked, If you tank turns cloudy you're missing some of the good. All thatshould be dosed is clear solution.IMO. The precipitate is phosphate, heavymetals and a bunch of other crap. I am glad you haven’t nuked your tank, but akalk OD can and does happen all the time. I know some people won’t agree withthis and don’t agree with me on Ich. OD kalk can kill a tank. Perhaps you knowmore about his tank than I do Wicked, and perhaps its 500 gallons, so a gallonof limewater won’t hurt it. But for anyone else reading that, it could easilykill everything in the tank. Please, please do your own research, find whatworks for you and be careful. You could kill your tank. I wouldn’t dose withoutfinding what your alk consumption is first. Why are you even dosing? Without testing, you dont know.

“Delivering a small amount of solid lime slurried (dispersed) in a smallamount of water. Adding one level teaspoon of solid lime (Ca(OH)2) slurried ina cup of water to 40 gallons of aquarium water all at once raises the pH by 0.6 to 0.7 pH units.That is clearly too much. Adding a smaller portion all at once can, however, beacceptable. Adding, for example, 1/4 teaspoon to 40 gallons will raise the pHby only 0.1 to 0.2 pH units. Unless the pH is high (>8.4) before theaddition, that amount is likely acceptable. The other concern with all at oncedosing is that the local pH in the area of the addition will rise considerablyhigher than the values above. Moreover, dosing a slurry raises the addedconcern that the solids must dissolve before encountering organisms that maytake them up and be harmed. So it is best to dose such materials to a sump, andwatch that they completely dissolve before reaching the main aquarium or arefugium. In many aquaria, such restrictions make all–at-once dosing of a slurryprohibitively risky to living organisms.”
 

andyrm66

Butterfly Fish
#22
Wicked Demon;127885 said:
This basicly says I am trying to crash his tank, if people dont want to trust my method thats fine, but untill you see my results why would you knock it?
I dont think your trying to crash his tank. I do know however, many people that have crashed a tank by adding a gallon of saturated limewater to a tank, or 8 ounces to a 8 gallon biocube, or a kalk drip that stuck on over night. I have seen the dead corals. Why not point him to good solid info, rather than an off the cuff, knee jerk, dump a gallon in, reaction?
 

miwoodar

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#23
Wicked Demon;127885 said:
This basicly says I am trying to crash his tank, if people dont want to trust my method thats fine, but untill you see my results why would you knock it?
What, you don't want an upgrade?
 

andyrm66

Butterfly Fish
#24
LPS and softies might be fine, ever seen some SPS when you go from 9 to 13dkh overnight? Ever seen fish convulse from to high alk/ph? Not saying it happens all the time or thats what will happen, but it does happen and if your not testing, nor do you know why your doing what your doing, you greatly increase the chances of hosing it up while decreasing the chances of sucess. Thats all.
 

djkms

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#25
I accidentally dumped in a around a gallon of saturated limewater into my system once. Scared the bejebis out of me! My PH shot up to almost 10 and my alk read off the charts. I had a huge snowstorm for about 2 hours. My corals where still out though and the fish only hid for about 15-20 minutes then came back out. This was in my 125.

Stability is key with this hobby. You can top off with saturated limewater all at once daily however I wouldn't go this route IMO. Slow and steady changes are best in this hobby. Remember, kalk increases alkalinity, calcium and PH, these should be changed gradually IMO. Every time you dose limewater you are in fact spiking or increasing alkalinity which is a killer for SPS if the change is to great.
 

Wicked Color

Tiger Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#27
Different strokes for different folks......;)
I will make a video this evening, and post it here.
 

miwoodar

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#28
You have tact that I could only dream of, Kris. Your story and mine are similar. The first time I tried kalkwasser I spiked my pH to 9+! Come to think of it, I was using one of the old Sea Test kits at the time. It might have gone much higher but the test kit wouldn't have shown it.

Kalk is great. I'm a big fan....easy to use....super convenient....time-honored and well-proven. It deserves caution and respect though.
 

Walter White

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#29
LOL Im reading this thread and hear my own kalk ato pump go off downstairs. I had to run down to make sure everything was still ok. :)
 

andyrm66

Butterfly Fish
#30
More good info:
The following important points should help in dealing with a limewater overdose:

1. Don't panic! These overdoses do not usually cause a tank to crash.
2. The primary concern is pH. If the pH is 8.6 or lower, you need not do anything. If the pH is above 8.6, then reducing the pH is the priority. Direct addition of vinegar or soda water is a good way to accomplish this goal. Either one mL of distilled white vinegar, or six mL of soda water, per gallon of tank water will give an initial pH drop of about 0.3 pH units. Add either to a high flow area that is away from organisms (e.g., a sump).
3. Do not bother to measure calcium or alkalinity while the tank is cloudy. The solid calcium carbonate particles will dissolve in an alkalinity test, and all of the carbonate in them will be counted as if it were in solution and part of "alkalinity." The same may happen to some extent with calcium tests. Wait until the water clears, and at that point, alkalinity is more likely to be low than high. Calcium will likely be mostly unchanged.
4. The particles themselves will typically settle out and disappear from view over a period of 1-4 days. They do not appear to cause long term detrimental effects to tank organisms.
5. Water changes are not necessarily beneficial or needed in response to a limewater overdose.
 

miwoodar

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#31
I've seen those words before. RHF?
 

djkms

Reef Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#33
Aaron I am curious if we should look into this more. Conventional theory is that there are no ill effects on a kalk overdose. Many would consider your method a "daily overdose" yet your tank is always amazing. Maybe some more documentation is in order to better understand kalk and its chemistry in aquaria.
 

andyrm66

Butterfly Fish
#34
FWIW, most people do not suffer loses from minor limewater overdoses, even when the tank is white like milk. Only large overdoses that drives the pH above 9 and keeps it there for a substantial period usually suffer loses.

Keep the aeration as high as possible. That will help with the low pH and low O2 that excessive vinegar may cause.

This has more:

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

and

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

from it:

The following important points should help in dealing with a limewater overdose:

1. Don't panic! These overdoses do not usually cause a tank to crash.

2. The primary concern is pH. If the pH is 8.6 or lower, you need not do anything. If the pH is above 8.6, then reducing the pH is the priority. Direct addition of vinegar or soda water is a good way to accomplish this goal. Either one mL of distilled white vinegar, or six mL of soda water, per gallon of tank water will give an initial pH drop of about 0.3 pH units. Add either to a high flow area that is away from organisms (e.g., a sump).

3. Do not bother to measure calcium or alkalinity while the tank is cloudy. The solid calcium carbonate particles will dissolve in an alkalinity test, and all of the carbonate in them will be counted as if it were in solution and part of "alkalinity." The same may happen to some extent with calcium tests. Wait until the water clears, and at that point, alkalinity is more likely to be low than high. Calcium will likely be mostly unchanged.

4. The particles themselves will typically settle out and disappear from view over a period of 1-4 days. They do not appear to cause long term detrimental effects to tank organisms.

5. Water changes are not necessarily beneficial or needed in response to a limewater overdose.


From RHF on RC
 

miwoodar

Tang
M.A.S.C Club Member
#36
That's the reason it works....the daily dose...each dose is small enough that you can get away with it. Batch dosing is also the precise reason people are saying to read more about kalkwasser before trying it. What happens when a noob follows this advice and misses a few days? He comes home, makes a triple batch, and kablooey. Why do people fight reading a 5 page article to help understand a ca/alk scheme? Ca/alk maintenance is one of the most fundemental aspects of this hobby. The article takes 15 minutes to read. Really, it's not too much to ask.
 

Boogie

Dolphin
M.A.S.C Club Member
#37
OP here, checked to verfiy. lol. Thank you all for all the great advice. I have read the article and while it helps, I do mo betta with examples from those I trust (i.e. Wicked). THAT SAID, I don't dose, never have so I appreciate any and all information given. I can't bring myself to dump water in, i don't trust my own measuring methods well enough to do that. Big difference between Tsp and tbsp. IF i go the kalkwasser way, I'll end up buying some piece of equipment that slowly drips kalk into the tank. I'll end up under doing it for a while, then adjusting up. Again, I just don't trust myself and value what I have too much.

I know everyone has ways that have worked for them, the same ways have had disasterous results for others. I err on the side of caution and find that getting examples of what multiple different people are using help me decide which method I will try. This is the method that I have chose to work for me. If you dump it in, throw two spoons over your shoulder while doing a naked caveman dance thats fine, I'm glad to consider that as method. If you count every single crystal and throw out the ones without blue eyes and blonde hair thats fine too, I'm glad to consider that as a method. What ever works for you has never failed for me as I have tried nothing. I have appreciated everyones suggestion and have read them all. Please keep up the good, friendly advice coming. =)
 

that0neguy1126

Registered Users
M.A.S.C Club Member
#38
Depending on the load you plan to put in the new tank Mark, you might be better off with a Calcium reactor. If you plan to fill that tank with all SPS, I would be willing to bet you would end up dosing calc/alk on top of your kalkwasser.
 

Wicked Color

Tiger Shark
M.A.S.C Club Member
#39
Precipitant is from a major pH/Kh swing, from a limewater overdose.
White water in my case is from undisolved Ca being added, BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!
I dont overdose my tank, and dont have -major- swings, I do have swings within the tolerance range of the animal, which is healthy. (IMO more healthy than exact parameters day in and out)
FWIW~I never said anyone shouldn't read a/the/more articles, and ask more questions, or err on the side of caution.
 
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