All right, about to drink the kalkwasser kool aid. Some basic questions

[Boogie]

I know it sucks to be leaving behind this winter chill to head for low 80s but I guess someone has to do it...sigh...Guess I'll take the grenade this round...

 

[dv3]

so this is way too much for me too read all through ...but for me i was going to add kalk to my ato bucket and throw a mj in there that comes on right before my ato is set to come on to "stir" the kalk up ...poor/lazy/simple mans solution .....lol

i have read the first article a while ago ...along with a few others

 

[Wicked Color]

WD, I can't see videos from the office but I've heard good things so I'm looking forward to checking it out.

We're onto the 2nd page of this thread and you're still not understanding the point of the discussion. It's not whether you have a nice tank or not. The concept being being debated is 'best practice'. Batch dumping kalkwasser is not an example thereof. Yes, it can be very successful, but it's not best practice. I can find you examples of hard core systems (TOTM quality) that do not use a skimmer. Does that mean I'm going to ditch my skimmer? No. A skimmer is insurance I am not willing to do w/o. I can also find you some very nice tanks that run PC bulbs. I'm never going back to PCs. There are also many great tanks that do not run an ATO. I'm not giving up my ATO. There are tanks that don't do water changes (been there myself even). I'm not going to say that people shouldn't do water changes though. Shall I go on?

"Only stupid people never change their mind." That is a very childish jab by a person with such an esteemed role in this club. Isn't one of the fundemental principles of the club to 'share the knowledge'? I'm sorry, but you're failing to describe the options available. (This is a great place to start BTW...http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/chemistry if only Randy would update it to include his DIY two part recipe.)

Who didn't change their mind? Me? I've batch dosed kalk. I've tried a lot of Ca/alk schemas and had success with all of them.
1995-1997 (baking soda and off-the-shelf calcium products)
1997-2001 (ATO kalkwasser on some tanks, batch kalkwasser on others...500+ gallons at home and 600+ for clients)
2003-2004 (B-ionic then B-ionic with ATO kalkwasser)
2004-2009 (ATO kalkwasser then a calcium reactor then the two in combo)
2009-2011 (DIY two part with ATO kalkwasser then switched back to straight ATO kalkwasser due to lower Ca/alk demand)
2011-present (DIY two part on dosing pumps...the easiest solution yet)

I dont use a skimmer, an ATO, or do very many water changes either, and I have skimmers, top off units, and salt all ready to go. I am not debating ease of use, only effectivness, and I have (IMO of course) a pretty nice tank, so it must work to some degree, and "best"????, isn't that pretty much subjective to perspective?
And if I want to go in vacation I simply hook up an appropriate reservoir with lime water and an ATO.
(they just crust up over time and I am a hands on guy, so it works out to top off by hand)
My sig line is irrelevant to the discussion, its not intended you, or anyone else specificly, just a saying. (I thought the previous one would get flack?, not this one.)
It isnt wrong just because it isnt in a book, expert endorsed, or your way. Different strokes botha man~

 

[miwoodar]

I have (IMO of course) a pretty nice tank, so it must work to some degree.

My opinion is not important.

 

[Wicked Color]

wow, thanks man!

 

[miwoodar]

so this is way too much for me too read all through ...but for me i was going to add kalk to my ato bucket and throw a mj in there that comes on right before my ato is set to come on to "stir" the kalk up ...poor/lazy/simple mans solution .....lol

i have read the first article a while ago ...along with a few others

FWIW, you don't need to stir a bucket. Randy Holmes Farley wrote an article summarizing his findings on his large ATO (40 gallons IIRC). The crust on top protects the solution from further CO2 degredation. A pass through container, such as a neilsen reactor, is a totally different situation.

 

[miwoodar]

wow, thanks man!

You're welcome.

 

[Wicked Color]

You're welcome.

I suppose I will keep my opinions to myself in the future.

 

[djkms]

I love you guys, forums are great, people are awesome. I feel a song coming on!!!!


[video=youtube;lFYBLwb3I84]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFYBLwb3I84[/video]

 

[dv3]

i just want to stir it so that it doesn't build up at the bottom and put in too much when my water drops that low ....make sense

Mike and Aaron ...have met both you guys ...you both seem like decent people to say the least ....i suggest you take this private as you have both discussed your ideas already, no point in arguing them here ....its starting to sound/look bad IMO

 

[miwoodar]

i just want to stir it so that it doesn't build up at the bottom and put in too much when my water drops that low ....make sense

Mike and Aaron ...have met both you guys ...you both seem like decent people to say the least ....i suggest you take this private as you have both discussed your ideas already, no point in arguing them here ....its starting to sound/look bad IMO

I cleaned it up a bit. I'm looking forward to us all laughing about this someday. It is my sincere hope that it happens. I can count on one hand...the number of people I've had a bad relationship with. I'm a completely reasonable guy.


No fair Kris, I already said that I can't see videos from the office. What is it?

 

[Off The Deep End]

Elton john- can you feel the love tonight.

 

[KhensuRa]

who needs to watch night time drama on tv... We got it here... hahahahhaaha

Lots of great info guys, I look forward to having a tank big enough to really utilize some of this stuff.

 

[dv3]

I'm looking forward to us all laughing about this someday. It is my sincere hope that it happens.

im sure you will ...some folks are just passionate

 

[miwoodar]

who needs to watch night time drama on tv... We got it here... hahahahhaaha

I was never angry. You're not likely to see me pull a Bob Knight and sling a chair. I'll be direct though.

 

[mdrumm]

glad to have you back woodar.

 

[Boogie]

I purchased Kris's Kalk stirrer (childish giggle). Going to see if I can make a go of it. Hopefully inline with my rodi to limit the amount of messing with it that I have to do (I like the set and forget method). Now knowing what kalk to sump device I am going to be using, any other adivce?

 

[Tripple T]

Wicked, If you tank turns cloudy you're missing some of the good. All thatshould be dosed is clear solution.IMO. The precipitate is phosphate, heavymetals and a bunch of other crap. I am glad you haven’t nuked your tank, but akalk OD can and does happen all the time. I know some people won’t agree withthis and don’t agree with me on Ich. OD kalk can kill a tank. Perhaps you knowmore about his tank than I do Wicked, and perhaps its 500 gallons, so a gallonof limewater won’t hurt it. But for anyone else reading that, it could easilykill everything in the tank. Please, please do your own research, find whatworks for you and be careful. You could kill your tank. I wouldn’t dose withoutfinding what your alk consumption is first. Why are you even dosing? Without testing, you dont know.

“Delivering a small amount of solid lime slurried (dispersed) in a smallamount of water. Adding one level teaspoon of solid lime (Ca(OH)2) slurried ina cup of water to 40 gallons of aquarium water all at once raises the pH by 0.6 to 0.7 pH units.That is clearly too much. Adding a smaller portion all at once can, however, beacceptable. Adding, for example, 1/4 teaspoon to 40 gallons will raise the pHby only 0.1 to 0.2 pH units. Unless the pH is high (>8.4) before theaddition, that amount is likely acceptable. The other concern with all at oncedosing is that the local pH in the area of the addition will rise considerablyhigher than the values above. Moreover, dosing a slurry raises the addedconcern that the solids must dissolve before encountering organisms that maytake them up and be harmed. So it is best to dose such materials to a sump, andwatch that they completely dissolve before reaching the main aquarium or arefugium. In many aquaria, such restrictions make all–at-once dosing of a slurryprohibitively risky to living organisms.”

Andy here is my problem with you.... you are not a Biologist and if I remember correctly, you are in school for finance ( or something like that). You are not only unqualified to make scientific arguments, you are unqualified to read scientific articles and papers. As a Biologist I spent a good portion of my undergraduate career learning to decipher scientific facts from scientific fictions. This is why the scientific method was invented. It is one thing to have a scientific background and make an argument for or against ich or kalk, however it is based on scientific method, it is another to do what you do and frantically search Google for any article that will support your claims, even if it is from 1956. I have no problem with you sharing your experience but be careful to not make bold statements as scientific facts, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO!

 

[Boogie]

Would you say that the article he quoted is incorrect then? Just curious, not lighting fires here.

 

[dv3]

Tripple T by now we all know you have a biology degree ....we get it
i also understand your passion espcially since you also chose to formally educate yourself in the matter ....lets not use it to put people down or attempt to belittle them .....thats what RC is for

this a hobby and this is a fun place