Low Alk, what should I dose?

[jahmic]

Update: post #27

I'll preface this by saying that I really hate daily dosing...so I'd like to keep things as simple as possible without necessarily needing to get into more automation via an ATO or something similar.

Tank is a JBJ 28 gallon nanocube, mostly LPS and zoas/palys with a couple SPS frags. Running an aquamaxx HOB skimmer and purigen + chemi-pure in the rear chamber. Nitrates are at 0, phosphates were at 0.5 before adding chemi-pure...haven't tested since then.

Here are my levels. I tested yesterday, which is essentially right in the middle of my weekly WC schedule. Values in parenthesis represent the weekly min/max values just prior to and following a water change, where applicable.

SG: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Mg: ~1260 (1260 - 1290)
Ca: 400 (380-420)
Alk: 6.5 dkH (6.0 - 7.0)

I'm using the Salifert test kit for Mg, and the API kit for Alk. I didn't trust that API kit and brought a sample over to Elite...they indicated my Alk was at 6.7 with the Salifert kit, so I trust my reading of 6.5 with the same sample is correct. I don't own a Ca test kit (yet?) and just had them test my water a few times to see what my ranges are. The pH remains pretty stable, the lowest reading I've seen is in the morning before the lights come on, and it's somewhere between 7.8 - 8.0...hard to tell, the color chart on those kits...well I'm sure you already know.

Prior to stuffing corals into my tank, my Alk was right around 9.0. I didn't test often, my corals looked fine, but I got curious one day and found the Alk was at 6.0. After some research, I thought maybe my Alk dropped because for 3 consecutive water changes, I let my salt mix for a couple days (using Salinity, read that Alk drops are common after prolonged mixing) prior to use. So, I started just mixing overnight, and for the past 2 changes my mixed water has tested at 9.0 before adding it to the tank...I'm changing 5 gallons/week. Also decided to move the salinity up to 1.026 from 1.024 to see if that helped.

Obviously, none of this has really made much difference. I had hoped that my Alk would slowly creep back into a more acceptable range if I ensured my salt mix was at 9.0 and didn't mix too long...but at this point even if I hit 7.0 after the change, it's back down to 6.0 - 6.2 by the end of the week.

So...questions.

-Would it work if I just slowly buffer my water until the Alk reaches a level of about 8.0, and then maintain an acceptable range with weekly changes? I was recommended that Seachem Reef Builders Product...and reading the instructions/description it seems like it should do the trick. I figure I can slowly bump up the Alk, then at the most maintain it as needed by putting some in my top-off once or twice a week if it's really necessary. Really hoping I can just bump it up though and maintain it with weekly changes once it's where it needs to be. I picked up a bottle of that Reef Builders, but haven't cracked open the bottle in case there are better options.

-Do I REALLY need to dose Ca at this point? I don't have a test kit at home (I never dose what I can't test), and really would like to avoid over-complicating things. I've seen people get Ca readings much lower than that and understandably have issues...but all my corals are happy, and although 380 is on the low side, that's at the end of the week and I feel like it's close enough that I should be OK.

Don't wanna sound lazy...but I've gone through the daily dosing routine and trying to balance levels with a CO2 injected planted tank. It's completely unappealing to me at this point to chase ideal values if things are happy (referring to my Ca levels here), but I'd like to get my Alk in check.

Thoughts?

 

[cdrewferd]

Pretty sure Kalkwasser will help with your levels. Start slow, like 1/8 tsp per gallon of top off water. When that bucket is gone, I mix my top off 5 gallons at a time, go to 1/4, then 3/8 then 1/2. I've been doing this in my tank for a while and am going to mix my new top off tonight with 1/2 tsp. Once I've done this for a while I'll test every couple days for a while and see how the numbers are looking.

 

[djkms]

Kalkwasser is good at maintaining levels but does not do a very good job at raising levels. If you are trying to raise alk you can use baking soda then use kalk to maintain.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

IMO do not raise alk more than 1 point per day - the "safe" rule of thumb number is 2 but this is to much for sensitive SPS. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Walter White]

I went through the same thing with my jbj. I also use salinity and after a awhile of doing water changes with batches that sat from anywhere from 3-7 days mixing I found my alk dropped to the same levels you have. I started dosing which was fine keep things normal but was a pain. I found that when i started mixing the salinity for just 1 hour then doing the water change my alk stabilized between 9-9.5 with no dosing. I do use kalk in my ATO however. If you can get past the cloudiness of mixing the salinity for just an hour before adding I think you should really try it. It seems to solve my issues. I know, I know my tank looked like poop when you came over but its not due to ca,alk,mg or ph issues. I assure you.

Also had I known you needed a CA test kit I would have given you my salifet as I use Hanna now.

 

[cdrewferd]

Ahh, my bad. Thanks for the clarification Kris.

 

[SyntheticOcean]

Check out www.thriveaquatics.com. You can setup an free account, input your tank info, keep track of water samples. And it will give you a Rx of exactly how much of what to dose. Of course this is using thrive supplements. I have been using thrive for several months, and takes the guess work out. DorkFish aquatics is the only authorized thrive dealer in the state.

 

[newtoreef]

Bro I use brightwells reef code B all it does is raise alk and can be used to maintain

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[newtoreef]

I use it every other day to keep it at 9 also it helps with Ph swings

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[jahmic]

Kalkwasser is good at maintaining levels but does not do a very good job at raising levels. If you are trying to raise alk you can use baking soda then use kalk to maintain.

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

IMO do not raise alk more than 1 point per day - the "safe" rule of thumb number is 2 but this is to much for sensitive SPS. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks for that calculator, I've bookmarked it and will definitely dig into it this weekend. I'll definitely make sure to stick with 1 point dkH per day...I was honestly going to try to go slower than that because I wasn't sure what was safe, but that sounds nice and easy. I had considered using baking soda to bump up the Alk, but wanted to research it a bit more. My main concern with baking soda is that my Alk seems to be low enough that raising my Alk with Sodium Bicarb would also lead to a pH increase by the time I get my Alk where I want it. I hadn't looked into exactly how much Sodium Bicarb I would need to effect my Alk and the corresponding pH change that I would see with that approach...but kinda worried that I would get some pH swings due to the lower buffering capacity of my water at this point. That's actually the reason I grabbed that Seachem product...it claims that it will buffer the Alk and only raise the pH to 8.3. I figured the less parameters I'm affecting at a time, the better.

I went through the same thing with my jbj. I also use salinity and after a awhile of doing water changes with batches that sat from anywhere from 3-7 days mixing I found my alk dropped to the same levels you have. I started dosing which was fine keep things normal but was a pain. I found that when i started mixing the salinity for just 1 hour then doing the water change my alk stabilized between 9-9.5 with no dosing. I do use kalk in my ATO however. If you can get past the cloudiness of mixing the salinity for just an hour before adding I think you should really try it. It seems to solve my issues. I know, I know my tank looked like poop when you came over but its not due to ca,alk,mg or ph issues. I assure you.

Also had I known you needed a CA test kit I would have given you my salifet as I use Hanna now.

Thanks for chiming in. I'm almost certain that's what has caused this issue. If I pre-heat my water and add slowly while the powerhead is churning, my water is actually clear in a few hours. Instead of mixing overnight, I'll try to mix just before adding this weekend to see if it makes a difference...before I jump into dosing. Drop me a pm if you still are looking to get rid of that Ca test kit...I could still use it and you're not all that far from me

Pretty sure Kalkwasser will help with your levels. Start slow, like 1/8 tsp per gallon of top off water. When that bucket is gone, I mix my top off 5 gallons at a time, go to 1/4, then 3/8 then 1/2. I've been doing this in my tank for a while and am going to mix my new top off tonight with 1/2 tsp. Once I've done this for a while I'll test every couple days for a while and see how the numbers are looking.

Thanks for the info on kalkwasser...I was actually planning on dropping you a pm to see how much you dosed since we have the same size tank...figured it'd at least give me a ballpark starting point. I'm going to see if I can get my levels where I want them first, and if water changes can't maintain those levels I may be getting in touch with some more questions.

 

[Walter White]

Not to undermine newtoreef but you must be careful when adding single part additive. The allusion that you are lacking in just one and not the other if often just that "an allusion". In most case you will still want to does equal parts of the other if you are dosing one. There are exceptions to the rule but IMO they are usually rare. Here is an article written by RHF that gives a universal diagnosis and recommended fix for all CA/alk relationship issues.

The 4 quadrant diagram is a great tool that I now live by when balancing my CA and ALK
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

 

[jahmic]

Wow...thanks everyone for all the info...can't even keep up with the stream of posts!

Sounds like I have quite a few product options. Unless someone throws up a red flag on the Seachem Reef Builder to buffer my Alk, I may give it a shot. I generally trust their products as I've been using many of them in my planted tank for the past few years. Seemed like a safe way to buffer without bothering the pH too much.

Check out www.thriveaquatics.com. You can setup an free account, input your tank info, keep track of water samples. And it will give you a Rx of exactly how much of what to dose. Of course this is using thrive supplements. I have been using thrive for several months, and takes the guess work out. DorkFish aquatics is the only authorized thrive dealer in the state.

That thrive aquatics system looks pretty cool. Do you know if Dorkfish will do the in-store testing? Might be a good excuse to check them out.

Bro I use brightwells reef code B all it does is raise alk and can be used to maintain

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That brightwell product looks to do the same thing as the seachem stuff I picked up...unless I'm completely mistaken. Basically it looks like they're all "part-b" of the 2-part regimen, which is probably all I need to do at this point.

 

[newtoreef]

This is true but I have used reef code B alone to raise my alk with no issue but I do also use reef code A every 3 days to maintain CA but I did not use to my knowledge alk CA and mag are tied into each other and keeping those three constant and maintained makes alk not drop so much and keeps things stable

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[jahmic]

Not to undermine newtoreef but you must be careful when adding single part additive. The allusion that you are lacking in just one and not the other if often just that "an allusion". In most case you will still want to does equal parts of the other if you are dosing one. There are exceptions to the rule but IMO they are usually rare. Here is an article written by RHF that gives a universal diagnosis and recommended fix for all CA/alk relationship issues.

The 4 quadrant diagram is a great tool that I now live by when balancing my CA and ALK
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

Hmmm...I've heard this before too. I'm not certain if the Seachem Reef Builder would be considered just "part-B" of a 2 part dosing solution, but it does only address my Alk levels without dosing Ca. Thanks for the additional info. I'm hoping that my Ca levels are OK and what I really need to do is just address how I'm mixing my salt to get things under control...then maybe look at kalkwasser for maintenance. Do you think it'd be a bad idea to forego supplementing Ca for now and just try the stuff I have on hand to get my Alk back where it needs to be? I think that if I do end up at the point where my tank needs dosing daily or every other day with my top-offs that I would probably go ahead and dose both Ca and Alk...but was hoping to just address the 1 pertinent issue of low alk for now.

 

[Haulin Oates]

I use the baked baking soda in my top off water. My alk was about as low as yours and after 100ml per top off for about a month its up to 9.8 dKH. It's really a cheap easy way to up your Alk. And you won't need nearly as much as me, since in dosing for 125gal. FYI I keep my calcium at 450 as well. You may want to track your mag levels too; it can have effects on your Alk and calcium levels.

 

[djkms]

I am personally raising my alk right now. My kalk went bad in my reactor and like a idiot I waited a day and a half to clean out my reactor and put new kalk in. My system dropped 2 1/2 points in that time. I am slowly raising it 1/4 point a day with baking soda.

 

[Haulin Oates]

Also, my pH has been stable, about 8.0 throughout this entire process. I use red sea test kits and back up my readings with my API kit, which has always confirmed my red sea!!

 

[jahmic]

I use the baked baking soda in my top off water. My alk was about as low as yours and after 100ml per top off for about a month its up to 9.8 dKH. It's really a cheap easy way to up your Alk. And you won't need nearly as much as me, since in dosing for 125gal. FYI I keep my calcium at 450 as well. You may want to track your mag levels too; it can have effects on your Alk and calcium levels.

Yea, initially when my Alk read low I suspected low magnesium to be the culprit. I picked up the test kit, and my Mg levels have remained 1260-1290 over the past 2 weeks. Initially it was as low as 1170 when my SG was at 1.024...but after adjust that to 1.026, Mg has stayed above 1260.

 

[Haulin Oates]

Nice, I'm beginning to think my mag test is bad, it's never under 1600!!

 

[jahmic]

whoa, I bet you have some corralline in your tank, lol. Are you dosing anything at all that has mag in it? What salt are you using?

 

[jahmic]

Checking out that calculator that djkms linked. SO sick, thanks for making this easier.