Which Salt?
- Thread starter projectx
- Start date
MASC Bod had nothing to do with the GB
it was all the LFS stores 3 in-particular that would call and cry to seachem, then seachem would call me and tell me all all about it.
Sad that the LFS want to keep you guys overpaying
There is 1 store close to me that are not sponsors and seem to be leading the charge on this Gonzo Boycott to sell salinity salt lol
I can tell you who its not, but dont want to say who it is
its NOT
d and g
animal attraction
denizons
there is one on this list that calls to tell on me know and then as well, but we will not name names, they know who they are
that leaves just 1 store in NOCO that is not on the list, what is real shady about this store is the way they badmouth me to customers, I know this because they come here and tell me then we have a laugh
they hate the fact I am a home based BIZ and I have a website.
it was all the LFS stores 3 in-particular that would call and cry to seachem, then seachem would call me and tell me all all about it.
Sad that the LFS want to keep you guys overpaying
There is 1 store close to me that are not sponsors and seem to be leading the charge on this Gonzo Boycott to sell salinity salt lol
I can tell you who its not, but dont want to say who it is
its NOT
d and g
animal attraction
denizons
there is one on this list that calls to tell on me know and then as well, but we will not name names, they know who they are
that leaves just 1 store in NOCO that is not on the list, what is real shady about this store is the way they badmouth me to customers, I know this because they come here and tell me then we have a laugh
they hate the fact I am a home based BIZ and I have a website.
If anyone is interested, Great Barrier Reef (in Lone Tree) was going to do a group buy for us. I posted about it a while back, and there didn't seem to be much interest.
As far as salt goes, I have always liked Tropic Marine. It has never given me any sort of algae bloom, and has seemed to be a very stable salt. I still have some left, but was thinking about trying Salinity when I run out.
As far as salt goes, I have always liked Tropic Marine. It has never given me any sort of algae bloom, and has seemed to be a very stable salt. I still have some left, but was thinking about trying Salinity when I run out.
It wasn't the current BOD, however that GB was squashed during the last BOD, and that contained two employees of Seachem. Not saying they squashed it because I have no knowledge of that. And for the record they both did a great job as BOD members.
That policy by Seachem is one reason I don't use the Aquavitro line. I just don't visit the LFS enough recently to commit myself to LFS only products. I would buy them online if they were readily available.
What happens to a sponsor that interferes with another sponsor's business anyhow? ( from our own rules)
"Not interfering with a purchase in progress through another sponsor or non-sponsor vendor. This would include offering a lower bid to society members as an incentive to buy through your business instead. This does not prevent you from conducting normal business negotiations with a supplier with whom you already have an established arrangement or from responding to a general request for quotes for a planned purchase not yet in progress."
http://www.marinecolorado.org/forums/faq.php?faq=masc_faq_list#faq_masc_faq_sponsor
That policy by Seachem is one reason I don't use the Aquavitro line. I just don't visit the LFS enough recently to commit myself to LFS only products. I would buy them online if they were readily available.
What happens to a sponsor that interferes with another sponsor's business anyhow? ( from our own rules)
"Not interfering with a purchase in progress through another sponsor or non-sponsor vendor. This would include offering a lower bid to society members as an incentive to buy through your business instead. This does not prevent you from conducting normal business negotiations with a supplier with whom you already have an established arrangement or from responding to a general request for quotes for a planned purchase not yet in progress."
http://www.marinecolorado.org/forums/faq.php?faq=masc_faq_list#faq_masc_faq_sponsor
E.S.V. B-Ionic Seawater System 200 Gallon Salt Mix (Packaged in Two Boxes) Information
E.S.V. B-Ionic Seawater System Salt Mix
A unique solution to many of the problems associated with all dry synthetic seawater blends.
Problem:
All dry blends may not be homogenous resulting in considerable chemical variations not only from batch to batch but also from within the same container. Aggravating this further, humidity contamination during storage can result in localized precipitation reactions.
Solution:
B-Ionic® Seawater System avoids these problems by providing the two dominant salts in our formulation in separate containers. All other major, minor, and trace elements are pre-dissolved in a highly concentrated two component liquid system. These dry and liquid components can easily be measured for any size batch of synthetic seawater.
Problem:
It is now recognized that most reagent grade salts can contain contaminants (trace metals, etc.) at levels which may inhibit the growth of some algae species from low nutrient environments (oligotrophic) such as coral reefs.
Solution:
B-Ionic® Seawater System addresses this issue by providing ultra-low heavy metal Sodium Chloride (max. allowable less than half max. allowable for reagent grade sodium chloride) and USP grade Magnesium Sulfate as the dry components of the system. In addition, all other chemicals pre-dissolved in our liquid components are subject to our three phase purification process resulting in significant lowering of contaminants, including phosphate.
Problem:
Many all dry blends take excessive time to completely dissolve. Addition of newly mixed batches to the aquarium can cause irritation to inhabitants upon exposure to non-dissolved salt micro-particles.
Solution:
B-Ionic® Seawater System avoids this problem by providing all of the slower dissolving ingredients in a pre-dissolved solution form. Batches can be used within 10 minutes of preparation with no adverse effects providing initial RO and/or DI water contains sufficient dissolved oxygen.
E.S.V. B-Ionic Seawater System Salt Mix
A unique solution to many of the problems associated with all dry synthetic seawater blends.
Problem:
All dry blends may not be homogenous resulting in considerable chemical variations not only from batch to batch but also from within the same container. Aggravating this further, humidity contamination during storage can result in localized precipitation reactions.
Solution:
B-Ionic® Seawater System avoids these problems by providing the two dominant salts in our formulation in separate containers. All other major, minor, and trace elements are pre-dissolved in a highly concentrated two component liquid system. These dry and liquid components can easily be measured for any size batch of synthetic seawater.
Problem:
It is now recognized that most reagent grade salts can contain contaminants (trace metals, etc.) at levels which may inhibit the growth of some algae species from low nutrient environments (oligotrophic) such as coral reefs.
Solution:
B-Ionic® Seawater System addresses this issue by providing ultra-low heavy metal Sodium Chloride (max. allowable less than half max. allowable for reagent grade sodium chloride) and USP grade Magnesium Sulfate as the dry components of the system. In addition, all other chemicals pre-dissolved in our liquid components are subject to our three phase purification process resulting in significant lowering of contaminants, including phosphate.
Problem:
Many all dry blends take excessive time to completely dissolve. Addition of newly mixed batches to the aquarium can cause irritation to inhabitants upon exposure to non-dissolved salt micro-particles.
Solution:
B-Ionic® Seawater System avoids this problem by providing all of the slower dissolving ingredients in a pre-dissolved solution form. Batches can be used within 10 minutes of preparation with no adverse effects providing initial RO and/or DI water contains sufficient dissolved oxygen.
I used a 50 gal box of B-ionic, loved it, mixed great, good price. Used D&D before, great stuff but had to mix for 24 hrs and left crap in the bucket and on the pumps. ESV mixes super clear and not that hard to mix. Only thing I dont like is I have yet to find any info on trace elements (ie copper, boron, etc).
One thing I read is Seachem was known in the past to have 12x borate, from what I can find the new Salinity is only 4x. The real issue seems to be the boron - depending on how they are measuring it, it can show up on our alk tesk kits as alk. Margin of error is around 10%, so if you test 7.7 DKH you're really sitting at 7.0 DKH. The other issue is they claim to be "just like seawater", seawater doesnt vary like they clain in dkh and P.H. They have since changed their website, but copper used to be listed at 5 ppb, which is 250x higher than NSW.
Here is what they had to say:
"Thanks for the email in regard to this. The numbers that
are being posted are old and inaccurate data. These
numbers were removed from our site before the product was
released and unfortunately they are still being posted on
forums with the assumption that they are current. All
parameters in salinity are targeted toward NSW levels,
including heavy metals. In order to clear up the confusion
with regard to this, we will be posting up-to-date numbers
on our site within the next couple days. From what I
understand, the heavy metal numbers in our final product
are within range of natural sea water. Please let us know
if we can answer any other questions or concerns with
regard to this or any other matter. Thank you for your
support.
Tech Support 10201"
And -
"To all:
We apologize for the confusion on the cited density of seawater at S=35. We should have cited the temperature for that density as being 15.56 C (60 F). Per Spotte "Captive Seawater Fishes", 1992, pp 28-29, the SG value at S=35 & T=16 C is approx. 1.0265 (or 1.026598 using the formula on the Salinity™ bucket -(a formula that is based upon this data in Spotte). We are well aware that SG is not the same thing as density. To arrive at the density value we cite we simply take
1.02598 * 0.9990389 g/cm^3 (density of pure water at 15.56 C)= 1.0256113 g/cm^3 which rounds to 1.026 g/cm^3 or 1.026 kg/L
That is since SG is a unitless value based on a ratio of densities we can obtain the actual density at that temperature by multiplying by the density of the reference solution (density of pure water at 15.56 C). SG=x/y where x=density of saltwater and y = density of pure water at the ref. temp (15.56 C). So to get x back we multiply SG*y as y is a known value.
But we should have cited the temperature for our density value as I imagine this would have avoided the confusion over this matter.
With respect to our formula for estimating S to within 1% requiring the use of an H value from a hydrometer calibrated at 15.56 C (60 F) and the note that most hobbyist grade hydrometers are calibrated at 75 F or 77 F the difference in the calculated values are in the neighborhood of 0.2% if one were using a hydrometer at 77F so this should not be an issue in any practical sense. We are simply citing the hydrometer calibration so that those who wish to be as accurate as possible can be, however the use of a hobbyist grade hydrometer will have no material effect (
One thing I read is Seachem was known in the past to have 12x borate, from what I can find the new Salinity is only 4x. The real issue seems to be the boron - depending on how they are measuring it, it can show up on our alk tesk kits as alk. Margin of error is around 10%, so if you test 7.7 DKH you're really sitting at 7.0 DKH. The other issue is they claim to be "just like seawater", seawater doesnt vary like they clain in dkh and P.H. They have since changed their website, but copper used to be listed at 5 ppb, which is 250x higher than NSW.
Here is what they had to say:
"Thanks for the email in regard to this. The numbers that
are being posted are old and inaccurate data. These
numbers were removed from our site before the product was
released and unfortunately they are still being posted on
forums with the assumption that they are current. All
parameters in salinity are targeted toward NSW levels,
including heavy metals. In order to clear up the confusion
with regard to this, we will be posting up-to-date numbers
on our site within the next couple days. From what I
understand, the heavy metal numbers in our final product
are within range of natural sea water. Please let us know
if we can answer any other questions or concerns with
regard to this or any other matter. Thank you for your
support.
Tech Support 10201"
And -
"To all:
We apologize for the confusion on the cited density of seawater at S=35. We should have cited the temperature for that density as being 15.56 C (60 F). Per Spotte "Captive Seawater Fishes", 1992, pp 28-29, the SG value at S=35 & T=16 C is approx. 1.0265 (or 1.026598 using the formula on the Salinity™ bucket -(a formula that is based upon this data in Spotte). We are well aware that SG is not the same thing as density. To arrive at the density value we cite we simply take
1.02598 * 0.9990389 g/cm^3 (density of pure water at 15.56 C)= 1.0256113 g/cm^3 which rounds to 1.026 g/cm^3 or 1.026 kg/L
That is since SG is a unitless value based on a ratio of densities we can obtain the actual density at that temperature by multiplying by the density of the reference solution (density of pure water at 15.56 C). SG=x/y where x=density of saltwater and y = density of pure water at the ref. temp (15.56 C). So to get x back we multiply SG*y as y is a known value.
But we should have cited the temperature for our density value as I imagine this would have avoided the confusion over this matter.
With respect to our formula for estimating S to within 1% requiring the use of an H value from a hydrometer calibrated at 15.56 C (60 F) and the note that most hobbyist grade hydrometers are calibrated at 75 F or 77 F the difference in the calculated values are in the neighborhood of 0.2% if one were using a hydrometer at 77F so this should not be an issue in any practical sense. We are simply citing the hydrometer calibration so that those who wish to be as accurate as possible can be, however the use of a hobbyist grade hydrometer will have no material effect (
