APEX Heater + Halides Programming

[ayaws]

I could use a little help programming my heater to turn OFF when the halides are on.

On my setup, I run an EB4 on the DT and use 3 outlets -- 1 for the right MH (MH-R) 1 for the left MH (MH-L) and one for the 300W heater in the overflow (DT-Heat) There is also a PM1 with a temp probe.

I'm noticing that using standard temp-based control of the heater, it will occasionally be on when the halides fire up at 10A. Since I have 800W of lighting, I don't really need that 300W heater driving up the temp to the setpoint for off (78F.)

What I'd like to do or program is this:

Heater runs normally around the clock -- on at 77F, off at 78F.
Then be off if chiller is on and temp >77
Also be off if MH is on and temp >77.

Got any brilliant ideas on programming that? Also appreciated: comments to keep it simple and/or stop doing custom programming or other advice.

Thanks!
Adam

 

[zombie]

You are gonna need a virtual outlet to pull this off. I am calling it HeatStop below. The code assumes that your heater doesnt have a built in thermostat. I built in a 0.1 degree hysteresis so the heater doesnt short cycle if temp gets below 77 while the halides are on.

HeatStop
Set OFF
If Outlet MH-L = ON Then ON
If Outlet MH-R = ON Then ON
If Outlet Chiller = ON Then ON
If Temp < 77.1 Then OFF

DT-Heat
Fallback OFF
If Temp < 77.0 Then ON
If Temp > 78.0 Then OFF
If Outlet HeatStop = ON Then OFF

 

[ayaws]

Thank you Zombie!

So quick question -- to do this, I used one of the var_spd pre-created virtual outlets (mostly because I don't know how to create a new one.) That ok?

Otherwise it's in place!
Adam

 

[zombie]

Dont use a varspd. Go to the classic dashboard module setup page and add a DC8 with start address A1. Rename and code one of them as shown above and name the others UnusedA2, UnusedA3... with the code Set OFF. They can be used at a later time if you ever need them.

 

[ayaws]

Ah ha! Done -- thanks for the education.

I guess it's time to re-RTFM.

 

[DyM]

I start all my virtual outlets with v_ it helps to keep them straight.

 

[DyM]

You may want to ensure your heater and chiller are not fighting each other. You say on post 1 that chiller takes temp down to 77? If so, your new program will turn on the heater to get the temp back to 78.

 

[ayaws]

Sorry -- Chiller takes it down to 77.4. Heaters come on at 77. Occasionally (after the halides go off) the chiller will coast down to 77.2. I'll DEFINITELY keep a close eye on it and the log. Don't want to burn any more xcel energy than necessary!

 

[zombie]

+1. I always keep at least 0.3 degrees between the high heater setpoint and the low chiller setpoint (in my case evaporation fan). It saves energy and keeps them from fighting each other.

For example you could do 77 to 77.5 for the heater and 78.0 to 78.5 for the chiller

 

[ayaws]

Thanks! I'll watch it at .4 off and bump it up .1 if necessary! However with 800W of metal halide on it, I can't imagine it ever coasting down another .4F. (Unless it's very cold, my house heat is broken, and the windows are open.

 

[jahmic]

+1. I always keep at least 0.3 degrees between the high heater setpoint and the low chiller setpoint (in my case evaporation fan). It saves energy and keeps them from fighting each other.

For example you could do 77 to 77.5 for the heater and 80 to 80.5 for the chiller

+1 This is how I have had my heaters and fans/chillers setup. It definitely cuts down on costs by keeping them from fighting each other.

As summer approaches you may also consider re-evaluating when your lights come on to keep the cost of running your chiller down if your home experiences temp swings. I tend to keep my AC off when I'm not home, so my halides run when the sun goes down and temps start to drop.

 

[ayaws]

Nice! Both my wife and I work from home when we're not with customers or traveling. So the AC gets run hard!

I'm impressed you can get away with not running the AC and have halides. How big is your chiller?

 

[ayaws]

Here we are today. Thoughts on the settings? The 1/4hp chiller seems to be doing quite well. (Yesterday and tapping 81.1 was without the chiller.)

See any issues keeping the tank between 76.9 and 79? A 2 degree swing kind of seems like a lot to me but I'm not sure if tightening up that range is feasible.

[attachment=68656:name]

 

[zombie]

You can tighten it to a 1.5 degree swing easily.

Heater 77.0 ON, 77.5 OFF
Chiller 78.5 ON, 78.0 OFF

This will give you swing between 76.9 and 78.6 without risking chort cycling of equipment.

 

[jahmic]

Nice! Both my wife and I work from home when we're not with customers or traveling. So the AC gets run hard!

I'm impressed you can get away with not running the AC and have halides. How big is your chiller?

Well...my current tank is running halides that I put over the tank in November after switching from LEDs. The tank is coming down now, and there is no way I could have pulled off not running my AC with halides going during the summer months...especially since that tank relies on a fan for cooling vs a chiller.

In the past, I had a 28 g nanocube with a 150W halide in the enclosed hood. The target temp for that tank was 80 degrees. I ran a JBJ mini-arctica chiller that was 1/15hp. I had no issues running the halides without the AC going since I'd wait til 6pm for the halides to kick on in summer months. Basically, the AC would be off while I was at work from 8am-5:30pm. When I got home at 5:30pm the AC would get turned on and cool the house down before the halides turned on...otherwise the chiller was usually unable to keep up. On days where things were mistimed and I couldn't get home in time...my tank temps would get up to about 82 degrees.

 

[ayaws]

So far so good. It takes a full 2 hours to heat up and cool back down with a 78.5/77.5 set point. 1 hour to heat up, 1 hour to cool down. Right now I think I'm pretty happy with that cycle time. We'll see what happens when summer gets here and whether this little 1/4hp chiller can handle it.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[ayaws]

A couple of pics of the results of work done here:

All shots are iPhone...so bear with me. Not getting the DSLR out tonight.

Full tank shot (not perfect -- need some actinic blue to complement the 400W 14K halides...and a good scrub to finally wrap up the diatom bloom):
[attachment=68657:name]

Reef Brite Reef Tech Pendants mounted in the canopy. ReefBrite said you could lay your hand on them; I called BS and was mostly right. They won't burn you but they're warmer than what is comfortable.

[attachment=68658:name]

Running a 5-LED Neptune Lunar Sim Module for the blues at night.

[attachment=68659:name]

 

[ayaws]

Another update after the Neptune programming:

Zombie's programming worked well -- so well in fact I'm considering adding another virtual outlet to control the chiller -- say if temp is

 

[ayaws]

Still can't edit -- so I'm adding this to edit:

The chiller runs 1:10-1:20 which is roughly half the time the halides take to heat the water. So I think I am pretty happy with the chiller's ability to overcome the lighting with the house at roughly 70F. (Lots of south-facing windows to warm the place. Furnace is set to 67 during the day.)

 

[jda123]

Get some bigtime fans in that canpoy. They will do more than the chiller will. Fans over the sump can really help too.