Dead Water Plenum, DWP

Linderman

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#1
We set up a dead water plenum in our 180 a while back and thought we'd share our set up and see if anyone has any advice or feedback regarding their plenums. I may not get all the chemistry right, so please let us know.

In a sense a dead water plenum is just a place where water can accumulate and develop the anaerobic bacteria to break down nitrates and nitrites. It is just an empty space under the sand bed that critters can't get to and stir up.

We've had the DWP set up since July and have a pretty good bio load on it. Our Nitrates peaked at 60 ppm initially and then soon dropped once the bacteria established. Since the drop we've added to our stock and our Nitrates and Nitrites have remained at 0 since. We do run a 40 gallon sump with 25 gallons filter floss, puragen phosguard, chemipure, and a full size skimmer. I don't attribute all water levels to the DWP but I think it helps.

The set up:

We lay 1/2" PVC diagonally across the bare bottom and lay egg crate over the top. View attachment 15653
We use the finest mesh we can find and lay it over the top and around the edges. This is to keep bugs and sand from sifting through but allow water and dissolved gasses and bacteria to pass through. We used 70% UV protection Sun Shade. We added about an inch and a half of sand then lay one layer of screen (this can be window screen) to keep gobies, eels, shrimp etc from getting into the sand bed. We then added the final layer of sand, about 2 inches or contoured to fit the seascape. No pumps or airstones under the DWP to pull the water; nothing pulls detrius through.

View attachment 15655

They guy who taught me this had an 80 set up for 8 years with a DWP. He only ran a hang on back filter and small HOB skimmer. When we took apart the tank there were no dead spots and his Nitrates and Nitrites were zero.

Anyways, let us know if anybody has feedback or experience.
 

Labsalesguy

Angel Fish
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#2
Wow i like the idea of the dead water space to process nitrate...does the screen keep particles out and only water inside? Would there be possibility of black detritus forming, then next into hydrogen sulfide? I am going thru Baensch marine atlas vol. 1, and I understand sometimes that can happen with dsp...but I like the water only column---Reef tank right?
 

FinsUp

According to my watch, the time is now.
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#3
I'd be scared to put window screen in my tank because it's metal.
Following along to learn about this.
 

WatercolorsGuy

Nurse Shark
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#4
There is non-metallic window screen available. I believe some are made of fiberglass and nylon. I agree metallic screen would be bad though.
 

ReefCheif

Reef Shark
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#5
Im extremely interested in this, i know its an old school method but sounds amazing to me.

Could or would you be able to this in the entire 180?
Is it full proof? Meaning does the screen set up keep all the sand out of the dead water area? What if you get crap down there?
 

Linderman

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#6
I'm going to caveat this by saying I only have limited experience. Maybe someone else can better explain this. However, to my best understanding, the black detrius forms from existing bio material.

In the Dead water, there is only empty water space, no bio material trapped in the sand. I helped the gentleman who taught me about it disassemble his 8 year old 80 gallon and it was some of the clearest sand and water I had seen. No patches or dark spots (only the HOB filter and HOB protein skimmer).

Sand from the bottom of the tank after DWP
[attachment=65043:name]

Water from transporting after taking apart tank and DWP
[attachment=65044:name]

In our 180 we set up the DWP across the entire bottom of the tank with a 1/4 gap around the sides. There was some initial small patches of black detrius that formed but it was gone within a week and we have not had any problems since. In a week or two we are going to add one to our 100g as soon as we get corals situated.

I'd like to second using non-metal screens. I'd recommend using a PVC or non-degradable material
 

Labsalesguy

Angel Fish
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#8
Cool- so it is a nitrate filter--anaerobic with a negative redox potential, very low oxygen levels and low flow- with the benefit of the screen keeping detritus out. If you had a high flow and higher Oxygen levels you would kill off the anaerobic bacteria. I read another thing about nitrate filters is they can re-dissolve out trace elements as they process-but the only thing measurable is nitrate (Marine Atlas, vol 1 p73). I suppose live rock has anaerobic zones also, but can and will get detritus.
 

ReefCheif

Reef Shark
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#9
Ive been having nitrate issues since i re did my tank, been thinkin about tearing it down and doing it again, maybe this is my solution
 

Linderman

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#11
Interesting site. They recommend adding a power head and flow to the DWP. Ours has no power head attached or other device for flow until the readings are zero then removing it. We didn't do this, it might work. You can see little bubbles of nitrogen work through the sand and along the edge of the sand. The natural break down and nitrogen seems to create just enough water exchange to circulate the water without over circulating the water.

I'd think if the flow were too high it would remove all the anaerobic bacteria that dissolves nitrates and nitrites and run the risk of it not getting established. Depending on existing bacteria and nutrients, it would take some time to fully establish, 1 week to a month. Maybe somebody else has some experience or knows of another good resources.
 

ReefCheif

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#12
The few sites ive looked at have all reccomended the powerhead at initial start up
 

jda123

Dolphin
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#13
Isn't it amazing that people had reef tanks before biocubes, pellets, GFO and the like... and that they worked and were sustainable with some routine maintenance?

If you wash the sand off of areas of the plenum, you will get nearly immediate exchange of the oxic and anoix water and you could have a mini-cycle - not good. ...so be careful if you are a super-high flow kind of person. However, you might look back and see some awesome reef tanks from back the day that only had 2 to 4 maxijets for water movement with no different of results that tanks today with 50,000 GPH of flow pumps.

Remember that if you do this, you need to use aragonite sand. Silica will house the bacteria OK, but that same bacteria will not be able to exchange phosphate bonds with the silica like it does the aragonite.
 

ReefCheif

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#14
Im think Im going to try this, but with a bit of a twist. Im gonna do the plenum just as described, however Im going to do a deeper layer of sand for the top layer to better help protect whats below, and to give my wrasses plenty of sand to bury in. Im also going to work out a way to make the frame of the plenum so it sits completly flush to the bottom of the tank, maybe some type of silicone seal or something as well, Ill then physically fasten the egg crate and first screen to this and wrap the side to ensure nothing other than water can get in. Im also going to incorporate the tube / power head described on the website i posted, however the tube will alos be physically attached to the plenum ans capped off at the top, this way if I ever have an issue with build up down there I can get ot it without tearing the tank apart. Im also thinking that a very thin gauge piece of acrylic with 1000s of small holes drilled in it may work better for the top screen, again, to better help protect whats below. I however dont want to deviate away fomr the original instructions too much, I may set up a 20 gallon tank with a plenum and let it cycle and then play with the bio load of said tank to see how it goes.

Were going to try this on the 50gal bowfront Im setting up for my son, if it works well Ill set one up in the 180 as well.

Got a bit more research to do, but based on my 20+ years of freshwater knowledge and the similarites between a plenum and an undergravel filter I think this is a great method to employ and Im kinda excited to experiment with it
 

Linderman

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#15
ReefCheif;267198 said:
Im think Im going to try this, but with a bit of a twist. QUOTE]

That's pretty cool, I'd definately be interested in how it turns out. Are you going to have a control tank with normal sand bed for comparison?



I've read a few things regarding these, problem is I haven't seen much that did a direct comparison, it's all been anicdotal evidence. One study I read compared DWP with a DSB, they performed the same. However they didn't attempt to overload the system, just a small bio load. I'll keep reading when I have time.
 

ReefCheif

Reef Shark
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#16
I will try to set up a control with DSB as well, Ill need to come up with another 20 gallon and and some sand. I though about suing my display as the control, but since thats already established I dont thing it would be apples to apples.

Id like to set up two 20 gallons at the same time, both with HOB filters, one with DWP and one with DSB. Let them both cycle naturally to see which one cycles first and then begin over loading the bio load to see which one handles it better. Its gonna take me a bit to get this set up, I have enough to get one 20 gallon set up, but still need another 20gal tank, sand and HOB filter. I plan to use the same amount of sand in each set up as well so I can completley tell if the DSB or the DWP works better.

I will start a new thread regarding this experiment once I have everything i need to get it started
 

asn-naso

Dolphin
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#18
My first reef tank 18 or so years ago was setup like this. We called it a 'Jobear' system. I ended up battleing hair algae a converted to a DSB, then sold the tank

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