So I don't feel bad about my achilles track record
- Thread starter mdrumm
- Start date
Alright I'll bite...so about the Hawaii ban I think it's a alright thing. With the state of your oceans we need all that we can get. If we can put a remote control car on mars, why can't we breed safe, healthy, captive species for our tanks? I understand that ethical is expensive but isn't it worth it? Exotic species are cool but we have the technology we can grow them on land and not hurt our reefs, but it has a higher cost, then again nothing in this hobby is cost effective. If we can sustain our oceans we can sustain our hobby as well.
That would be really nice to have all captive fish in our tanks but if all collection is banned, there will be absolutely no chance that tangs and most angels will ever be in an aquarium in the future. That's fine if all you want are clowns, neon gobies, and now some mandarins in your tank because those are now being raised. I don't know of ANYONE that has taken a pair of tangs and raised their eggs from prolarvae to juvenile yet. We just don't know how to feed the little guys to keep them alive for the weeks/months it takes to settle out.
I'm all for captive propagation, hell, I raise clowns myself. But I also think that the collectors in Hawaii are responsible businessmen. The populations of the fish are increasing in Hawaii no matter how many lies Snorkle Bob spouts.
I'm all for captive propagation, hell, I raise clowns myself. But I also think that the collectors in Hawaii are responsible businessmen. The populations of the fish are increasing in Hawaii no matter how many lies Snorkle Bob spouts.
That's pretty much my take on the matter. I'm all for captive breeding for the species we can breed. Banning collection is a knee-jerk reaction. What needs to happen is for collection to be managed. Quotas, best practices, etc can help curb the abuses and still keep the hobby viable. I hardly feel bad for my tank fish living in a warm storm-free environment with 3 square meals and no disease or predators. As long as there are plenty of fish left to breed on the reef, then we do less damage to the reef than a shark, a storm, and certainly sport / commercial fisherman. The key is sustainability, not peta.
Indeed.... that's the rube in the proposed laws. The Hawaii fishery is sustainable, is managed by the state and isn't endangered. It's inflammatory misinformation being promulgated by eco terrorists (hey, I support REEF and the Sierra Club, just not Snorkel Bob) and not based on any science. Folks hear that the oceans are endangered, therefore, catching fish from them must be a problem. How about pesticide runoff, farm fertilizer on the pineapple and cane fields, boating activities (how many corals have given their life to an anchor?), cruise ship trash and waste dumped at sea not to mention trash and pollution?
The Hawaiian state biologists, those charged with keeping track of the health of the reef and enforcing the collection laws, have already testified that there is no crises in reef populations. They have a healthy, managed, controlled resource that's sustainable. The local collectors are permitted, inspected and pay fees to the state to support sustainable collection. Collection areas are closed during spawning, while others are opened during specific seasons. It's a sustainable fishery!
Now if you take the stance that no animal should be removed for the sea for any reason, then we don't have much to discuss. But that's the extremist view. Snorkel Bob believes that collectors are pillaging the reefs and removing animals, which detract from the tourist trade. I contend that the pollution generated by all those jets in and out of HI compounded with the trash and destruction of the tourists is far more damaging.
To support their view of banning collection, they recite loss of animals in certain areas, neglecting to mention that the fish migrate to different reefs during the year. Their information is hyperbole and not based on science. Sadly, many in the local govt don't listen to the state biologists and universities, but do panic when they believe that tourism is threatened.
If we can't maintain a sustainable fishery in the US, where there already exists regulations, controls and inspections by fishery management, what chance do 3rd world countries have for establishing sustainability?
Propaganda always outshines science when folks react with fear and innuendo. Eliminating the collection of wild animals in HI will cost thousands of folks a livelihood, and do nothing to improve the health of the reefs. Sustainability is the key. Overfishing is a problem, both in our hobby and the food industry. Knee jerk politics is always bad, regardless of what party or ideal you support.
The Hawaiian state biologists, those charged with keeping track of the health of the reef and enforcing the collection laws, have already testified that there is no crises in reef populations. They have a healthy, managed, controlled resource that's sustainable. The local collectors are permitted, inspected and pay fees to the state to support sustainable collection. Collection areas are closed during spawning, while others are opened during specific seasons. It's a sustainable fishery!
Now if you take the stance that no animal should be removed for the sea for any reason, then we don't have much to discuss. But that's the extremist view. Snorkel Bob believes that collectors are pillaging the reefs and removing animals, which detract from the tourist trade. I contend that the pollution generated by all those jets in and out of HI compounded with the trash and destruction of the tourists is far more damaging.
To support their view of banning collection, they recite loss of animals in certain areas, neglecting to mention that the fish migrate to different reefs during the year. Their information is hyperbole and not based on science. Sadly, many in the local govt don't listen to the state biologists and universities, but do panic when they believe that tourism is threatened.
If we can't maintain a sustainable fishery in the US, where there already exists regulations, controls and inspections by fishery management, what chance do 3rd world countries have for establishing sustainability?
Propaganda always outshines science when folks react with fear and innuendo. Eliminating the collection of wild animals in HI will cost thousands of folks a livelihood, and do nothing to improve the health of the reefs. Sustainability is the key. Overfishing is a problem, both in our hobby and the food industry. Knee jerk politics is always bad, regardless of what party or ideal you support.
All great points, but you have all totally missed the point. I understand that at this current time collection has no effect on the Hawaii reefs. However my point is,if we can put a man on the moon, a rover on mars, why can't we reproduce a few tangs on land? I feel that we have archived so many discoveries, why then in oceanic science cant wev over come how to make exotic tangs, corals, etc. a common day on land trade. Just because the current status of the Hawaii reefs are not a large concern, but if the current collection methods keep gaining support, then what?
Battery died...so my point is my grandpas time they hunted tiger for the personal collector, which at the time was just fine,but now there are only 3200 in the wild. If we have the technology now to sustain a species, then why not? I like great deals on fish and corals, but what is the actual price are we paying? I'd rather pay more on the front end than have my kids pay for it in the long run. We have the technology, we just a too lazy to take the time to raise the difficult species.
That's MY point....we may have the technology but we sure don't have the knowledge. Go to the breeding site that is mentioned in my
tag line. You'll see very little laziness about trying hard to breed species. We just don't know yet how to do tangs, and many angels.
I'm sure in a a couple decades or so we should be close to being able to breed most saltwater fish but it's almost impossible now. It's
too much of a capital risk for a company to try and figure out how to do it so right now, the home breeder is where most of the breakthroughs
in breeding fish will occur. I'm sure if we ate tangs as a staple in our diet, some company would figure out how to raise them since they
might be able to get some profit out of it. Until then, I'll encourage anyone I can to try and raise captive bred fish and I'll buy wild fish when
I can't find them captive bred.
tag line. You'll see very little laziness about trying hard to breed species. We just don't know yet how to do tangs, and many angels.
I'm sure in a a couple decades or so we should be close to being able to breed most saltwater fish but it's almost impossible now. It's
too much of a capital risk for a company to try and figure out how to do it so right now, the home breeder is where most of the breakthroughs
in breeding fish will occur. I'm sure if we ate tangs as a staple in our diet, some company would figure out how to raise them since they
might be able to get some profit out of it. Until then, I'll encourage anyone I can to try and raise captive bred fish and I'll buy wild fish when
I can't find them captive bred.
Zooid has pointed you to a great website! The MBI is a HUGE group of people (spreading to clubs) that is definitely not lazy, whose goal it is to try and learn about fish so that they can be bred and sustained. http://www.mbisite.org/Defined.aspx
If you haven't already liked the Hawaii Ban Fact Check on facebook you totally should. They are providing facts and science evidence against anti-aquarium industries who THINK their opinions are facts. http://www.facebook.com/HawaiiBanFactCheck
If you haven't already liked the Hawaii Ban Fact Check on facebook you totally should
. They are providing facts and science evidence against anti-aquarium industries who THINK their opinions are facts. http://www.facebook.com/HawaiiBanFactCheck